C7 Rack grade accuracy?

God Bless u fellas. Thanks for the info. I am really enjoying this community and the information that one can have access to. Oops, I'd better not end a sentence with a preposition.....sunray has been jacking guys up for punctuation, its just a matter of time before he moves on to sentence structure. :) j/k
 
As a former infatard it was the tool of my trade. It performed well, weather it be in rain, snow or the sandbox. I got lucky to see the evolution of the a1 to th a2 and so on. I shot well, and had well maintained kit to go along with it. We (cf) could have ended up like the Brits with their horrible sa 80's or the French and the famas.
 
sunray said:
"...the rack grade..." That's a CMP condition definition. Has nothing whatever to do with any CF firearm.
"...capable of at least 2 moa accuracy..." Not with crappy IVI ammo.
"...still carry it in reserve units..." Militia units are the very last to get any new kit.
"...out of 3 i..." Geezuz. You ever heard of sentences and punctuation?
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"crappy IVI ammo"?!?!?

Sorry, but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I was around when brand new C7's were issued, the original iron sight config. And I can safely attest that the new barrels and "crappy IVI ammo" were capable of BETTER groups than just about any normal human marksman.

Unless quality of the ammo has degraded, and barrels not replaced with new units since the late 1980's, both of which I doubt, then it's simply the skills that are lacking. Canadian made C7's and the ammo made for them, is as quality as it gets from any manufacturer.

That said, the early Elcan scope that I used, the original C79, seemed to me to have issues...holding a truly solid zero seemed to be uncommon.

But a new rifle, IVI ammo, and a really capable shooter, solid zero...I've seen a handful of sub-MOA groups. There's NOTHING crappy about the smallarms bought by the Canadian Forces. Maybe we keep some of them in service a bit too long, and yea, battleschool/BasicTraining guns do get badly abused, but we buy QUALITY in the first place. Frankly, I believe that the C7 itself may be the most accurate assault rifle in the world that's actually issued to armies.

If you want to be critical of a military rifle, you can cast an expert eye on the British bullpup known as the SA-80...two revisions, one major one by the expert German engineers from H&K and it STILL couldn't be turned into a firearm worthy of plinking fun...that the British Squaddies have to depend on that POS not only for rifle work, but also as a Section LMG just makes me shudder...yeesh! It's not "junk"...it's a damned deathtrap, IMO.

So what do British SAS and special forces use, if the SA-80 is so bad? They use Canadian made C8's of course!
 
I've always been able to shoot about 1.5 MOA all day with more than a 5 round grouping. IVI ammo is probably one of the top service rounds out there. Sure you might be able to find better commercial or hand loaded stuff, but it stacks up favorably. In the right hands the C7 and C8 are some of the best service rifles around. I would bet my life on one any day and I have.
 
CZ85Combat said:
Seriously? Reliability issues with ball ammo?
Something is wrong with your unit weapons or gun plummer...
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Some of the C7's required refurbishment and were pretty worn we had a few issues where some (1-3)where more aless not operable and had to be replaced. They kept blaming the problems on lack of budget so dunno. My C6 was now my favorite, fired a 7.62x51 ammunition I have shot for 10yrs prior and Iron Sights woot what a blast
 
And that there is the difference between reg force and reserve force. You would never hear about any c7's hanging around that didnt work, let alone more than one. Like we keep saying, a great all around rifle. The elcan too
 
And that there is the difference between reg force and reserve force. You would never hear about any c7's hanging around that didnt work, let alone more than one.
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Best would be when we sent a tagged item out to be fixed and it would come back in the same condition.
 
RickR1100 said:
That said, the early Elcan scope that I used, the original C79, seemed to me to have issues...holding a truly solid zero seemed to be uncommon.
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Yup, I also never got why the PAM teaches to take the scope off every time you do a detailed strip/clean, that doesn't help that mount any. Of course in the real world out side the training system no one does that.
 
RobertBarrie said:
Yup, I also never got why the PAM teaches to take the scope off every time you do a detailed strip/clean, that doesn't help that mount any. Of course in the real world out side the training system no one does that.
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Ha. No matter where you go, there's, 'by the book,' and 'the real way.'
 
Ive been working with weapons in the CF for the last 15 years. A c7 (any model) will out shoot most rifles in its class. I have seen c7's put 5 rounds in one hole at 100 meters. There is nothing wrong with the platform or the ammo. They do get barrels replaced as needed and other issues such as gas tubes also get replaced. The weak point is the shooter and the elcan.
 
It is a very accurate rifle in the right hands. People who ##### about the sight or the rifle saying it sucks just don't know how to shoot anyway. I have staked my life on both the C7 and C8 and both preformed how I needed them too.
 
I am no sniper but The C7 I shot in the reserves would shoot 2 moa even with me on the trigger. I never had any reliability issues because I kept it clean. I always wanted to see what it would do with a 3-9 optic and handloads, but I never got to try it.
 
Colt Canada rifles usually shoot better than the ammo they are fed.

That said IVI has produced some sub moa ammo over the years...................and some junk.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Colt Canada rifles usually shoot better than the ammo they are fed.

That said IVI has produced some sub moa ammo over the years...................and some junk.
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I've had a couple that would shoot MOA with selected lots of IVI.

That said, the new hammer forged barrels don't stay new for long. The BFA makes gas erosion around the crown. I've seen guys cleaning the crown with screwdrivers so it would shiny for turn-in.

Blanks make a ring of powder residue at the throat. That can make a bulged ring there if not cleaned out before firing ball. This for sure does not help accuracy.

Troops insist on using bore snakes. These won't clean blank firing residue sufficiently. They also drag filth into the bore if they are not washed after use.

A new barrel in the CF is worth it's weight in gold if you are on a rifle team just to get one that has not been blank raped to screw drivered.
 
Gunnerlove said:
The military teaches cleaning rather than maintaining.
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I worked in the weapons det. in Wainwright when it was the PPCLI battle school. You should have seen the tricks the troops used to get those rifles and guns clean. Brake cleaner, gel hand cleaner, routine hot showers for the weapons, scraping tools and screwdrivers. The instructors and all of the guys in the QM loved to jack up the recruits so you can understand why they were such fastidious "cleaners". Rifle "maintenance" is for civis. Despite all that, the c7s still seemed to shoot well enough.
 
I'm from part-time Royal Canadian Navy and shot a bit with the C7.

Best I can tell you is hitting a Fig 11 at 400m with iron sights and no sight adjustment sure caught the attention of the York Rangers I was shooting with! :D
 
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