I fired my Kimber Caprivi .458 Lott 17 times from my lead sled with 500gr tsx max loads. I could have never done that prone.
I would hope you wouldn't even try that from prone!
Ted
Caldwell Lead Sled Ballast Question
- Thread starter p-17
- Start date
I would hope you wouldn't even try that from prone!
Ted
Interesting that scopes are damaged (allegedly) and the stocks are broken (allegedly)>
I cant see it unless you have little to no movement on the sled or, for that matter, no movement of your shoulder with shot bags or whatever. The rifle will recoil, getting past the inertia of the weight of your body or sled or whatever, then come to rest at some point.
I cannot see how an extra, say, 20 pounds of mass in the sled (or a 20 pound shot bag against your shoulder with conventional bags as a rest) would destroy a stock or a scope. Such a stock or scope must be doomed for failure in any event.
I can see, that if you are leaning on your rifle in a sled, providing downward or side pressure - you can change your POI.
I can also see that if your rifle trys to twist out of the sled's rear butt holder, you may have a twist breakage. But just by adding some additional resistance (mass) to the recoil, be it a bigger man or more weight, I cannot see physically what would cause the breaking of a stock or scope.
I do see that there are new sleds that have recoil slides like an artillary piece.
I ensure mine is free to slide on the bench top with maybe 10 pounds of ankle weights. One cheap stock split long ago. I also put a folded old thick leather glove in the butt holder so that the butt does not sit so deep into the butt holder, both for padding and for the butt depth. It has handled to 450 AI, Rigbys, 375s, 30-06 too numerous to count, and everything lighter or in between.
POI shift is something I have not noticed before. I will continue to check that. The only POI shift I ever had was using a bipod on my 300 weath with a Brown stock. - never used a bipod again. Shooting sticks are more natural.
To each their own I suppose.
I cant see it unless you have little to no movement on the sled or, for that matter, no movement of your shoulder with shot bags or whatever. The rifle will recoil, getting past the inertia of the weight of your body or sled or whatever, then come to rest at some point.
I cannot see how an extra, say, 20 pounds of mass in the sled (or a 20 pound shot bag against your shoulder with conventional bags as a rest) would destroy a stock or a scope. Such a stock or scope must be doomed for failure in any event.
I can see, that if you are leaning on your rifle in a sled, providing downward or side pressure - you can change your POI.
I can also see that if your rifle trys to twist out of the sled's rear butt holder, you may have a twist breakage. But just by adding some additional resistance (mass) to the recoil, be it a bigger man or more weight, I cannot see physically what would cause the breaking of a stock or scope.
I do see that there are new sleds that have recoil slides like an artillary piece.
I ensure mine is free to slide on the bench top with maybe 10 pounds of ankle weights. One cheap stock split long ago. I also put a folded old thick leather glove in the butt holder so that the butt does not sit so deep into the butt holder, both for padding and for the butt depth. It has handled to 450 AI, Rigbys, 375s, 30-06 too numerous to count, and everything lighter or in between.
POI shift is something I have not noticed before. I will continue to check that. The only POI shift I ever had was using a bipod on my 300 weath with a Brown stock. - never used a bipod again. Shooting sticks are more natural.
To each their own I suppose.
back40sniper
CGN Regular
- Location
- South east Sask.
To any one who had stock damage, how much weight did you have in your sled?
The point of impact could change using a sled as the sled is holding your rifle
rather than the natural position resting on your shoulder.
The rifle could cant a bit without you being aware of it.
I feel more confident sighting in a scope with the sled.
I now use no weight on it for fear of damage.
I will try bringing both to the range next time and see the what for of each,
sled verses tri-pod and rear sand bags.
H4831 has this challenge going again............
He has posted the results of the Weatherby XXII 22 rimfire with
targets of different ammo.
I have different sort of ammo variation than H4831 and I think a fun
day at the range testing out what works best in both these rifles.
I just hope he leaves his trusted friend at home. (69A)
For those interested, it will be the Bella Bumbeena (XXII) verses
the T-Bone (T-Bolt).
I am sure there will be photos for you all after the plinking match.
Pup's gotta heal and a warm sunny day and Looky's off to the
range to pop some rims..........
Cheers all........
rather than the natural position resting on your shoulder.
The rifle could cant a bit without you being aware of it.
I feel more confident sighting in a scope with the sled.
I now use no weight on it for fear of damage.
I will try bringing both to the range next time and see the what for of each,
sled verses tri-pod and rear sand bags.
H4831 has this challenge going again............
He has posted the results of the Weatherby XXII 22 rimfire with
targets of different ammo.
I have different sort of ammo variation than H4831 and I think a fun
day at the range testing out what works best in both these rifles.
I just hope he leaves his trusted friend at home. (69A)
For those interested, it will be the Bella Bumbeena (XXII) verses
the T-Bone (T-Bolt).
I am sure there will be photos for you all after the plinking match.
Pup's gotta heal and a warm sunny day and Looky's off to the
range to pop some rims..........
Cheers all........
One scope was a new Bushnel Elite, that hadn't been loosened on anything else. Also thought it strange that when I sent it to Bushnell on warranty, they sent me a brand new Elite. In other words, it was cheaper to send me a new one, than to repair the almost new one that had been babied, except for using it on the lead sled with the 45-70.
Not being able to duplicate on the sled, the five shot groups made off the sand bags, was a disappointment, and made too many groups from each method, for it just to have been a bad day.
Other than that, I would only be guessing at the reason.
I was with H4831 one day and was down a couple Bushnell scopes as well.
One was an Elite 3200 that many moons ago was a replacement. It always had me
chasing my tail. Make an adjustment, then go back.
The other was an old B&L 3000 which lost it's parallex or gained and the elevation
adjustment went for a chit.
So, two scopes, one day. Could be just coincidence, but I don't use weight in my
sled anymore. Chalk it up to Murphy or not enjoying dealing with the warranty aspect
of sending in the scopes. Bushnell has in the past treated me well, but the last go, well
they didn't do what they said they would.
Don't wish to get into it here.
The only Bushnell's I buy now need to be a great, great deal.
One was an Elite 3200 that many moons ago was a replacement. It always had me
chasing my tail. Make an adjustment, then go back.
The other was an old B&L 3000 which lost it's parallex or gained and the elevation
adjustment went for a chit.
So, two scopes, one day. Could be just coincidence, but I don't use weight in my
sled anymore. Chalk it up to Murphy or not enjoying dealing with the warranty aspect
of sending in the scopes. Bushnell has in the past treated me well, but the last go, well
they didn't do what they said they would.
Don't wish to get into it here.
The only Bushnell's I buy now need to be a great, great deal.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
When four or five people post exactly the same results, it isn't a one of a kind thing.
Notice a trend on brand name of optics they were using?
I seem to have opened up a can of worms with what I thought was a fairly innocent question about suitable weights -- and I haven't even used my Christmas present yet! (I managed to pick up some used wheel weights and now I'm trying to track down a source for a suitable bag.)
I'm curious about all these theories of why rifles and scopes are breaking. I'm not convinced by the argument about the butt stop portion of the sled preventing the rifle from recoiling, thereby transferring all the recoil energy to the recoil lug and action screws. This is because, if I'm not mistaken, the rifle can still jump up off the forend rest during recoil, so much of the recoil energy is still allowed to move the rifle.
In any event, I personally do a great deal of shooting in the prone position with a shooting jacket and a sling. Even though I'm no heavyweight, I still weigh more than a lead sled with six bags of shot (more than you would ever use on a Lead Sled). When you are in the prone position, and the rifle is hooked into you with a tight sling, the whole setup is probably far more rigid (and resistant to backward movement) than a lead sled would be with 25 pounds of lead. Yet I haven't heard of any rifles breaking from TR shooting. (On the other hand, nobody shoots elephant rifles that way, either.)
I have personally not seen a significant difference in point of impact between my rifles when shot from prone with a tight sling vs. using a bipod vs. shooting off the bench. For me, the main contributor to point-of-impact shift has been the different eye position from these different shooting positions. Different eye position often results in different sight alignment. The effect of this is minimized with a scope that is properly parallax free, but it is brutal with iron sights.
Once again, I'm only going to be using this device with a .300 Winchester Magnum and smaller.
I'm curious to see the effects and will keep an open mind. But, even though I respect everyone's warnings here, I'm not overly concerned about using my Lead Sled, especially with a heavy .308 target rifle, or even my lightweight Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .30-06.
I'm curious about all these theories of why rifles and scopes are breaking. I'm not convinced by the argument about the butt stop portion of the sled preventing the rifle from recoiling, thereby transferring all the recoil energy to the recoil lug and action screws. This is because, if I'm not mistaken, the rifle can still jump up off the forend rest during recoil, so much of the recoil energy is still allowed to move the rifle.
In any event, I personally do a great deal of shooting in the prone position with a shooting jacket and a sling. Even though I'm no heavyweight, I still weigh more than a lead sled with six bags of shot (more than you would ever use on a Lead Sled). When you are in the prone position, and the rifle is hooked into you with a tight sling, the whole setup is probably far more rigid (and resistant to backward movement) than a lead sled would be with 25 pounds of lead. Yet I haven't heard of any rifles breaking from TR shooting. (On the other hand, nobody shoots elephant rifles that way, either.)
I have personally not seen a significant difference in point of impact between my rifles when shot from prone with a tight sling vs. using a bipod vs. shooting off the bench. For me, the main contributor to point-of-impact shift has been the different eye position from these different shooting positions. Different eye position often results in different sight alignment. The effect of this is minimized with a scope that is properly parallax free, but it is brutal with iron sights.
Once again, I'm only going to be using this device with a .300 Winchester Magnum and smaller.
I'm curious to see the effects and will keep an open mind. But, even though I respect everyone's warnings here, I'm not overly concerned about using my Lead Sled, especially with a heavy .308 target rifle, or even my lightweight Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .30-06.
On my lead sled, I found weighlifting plates bounced around with recoil quite a bit. Found some caldwell ziptop bags that held roughly 20lbs of sand each. Two of these hold it down quite nicely. The caldwell weight bags are well made and extremely sturdy.
Some kibble for you p-17.
Ever see a slow motion video of a car hitting a brick wall?
The front end crumbles and the arse of the car comes off the ground.
If you weigh your sled down considerably and then throw your shoulder
in behind the rear of the sled, in essence you are making the sled almost
solid causing barrel jump. That stopped energy has to go somewhere.
Stick the butt up against a concrete wall and pull the trigger. Curious to
see the outcome of this action.
Most are tossing you kibble out of concern of your equipment as per their/our
experiences.
Hecklers are always part of the action as in any sport.
Just offering a few kibble to you.
Keep us posted.
Ever see a slow motion video of a car hitting a brick wall?
The front end crumbles and the arse of the car comes off the ground.
If you weigh your sled down considerably and then throw your shoulder
in behind the rear of the sled, in essence you are making the sled almost
solid causing barrel jump. That stopped energy has to go somewhere.
Stick the butt up against a concrete wall and pull the trigger. Curious to
see the outcome of this action.
Most are tossing you kibble out of concern of your equipment as per their/our
experiences.
Hecklers are always part of the action as in any sport.
Just offering a few kibble to you.
Keep us posted.
Possible to miss the point as stated several times.If the legs of the sled are moving back with recoil,the movement of the sled absorbs impact.And as stated, add some padding to the butt holder.Do not know about damage caused to scopes, as I have never used a Bushnell.Looky, you stated the car crash example,however if the sled moves,it would be like the brick wall also moving.
All that sounds good and I don't think you will exterience any problems from limited use of the calibres mentioned. It was the 45-70 that done my scopes in and the recoil is a way worse, for the amount of energy formed, for those heavy bullets, than it is for rifles shooting lighter bullets faster. That same 45-70 also wrecked a good quality old Redfield scope, just shooting against my shoulder.
Regarding the front of the rifle rising with recoil, to help take care of the jolt. It doesn't happen. If it did, one would make terrible groups!
In a book by the British Military on shooting the 303 Lee Enfield in the prone with tight sling, like you refer to, they said tests proved that the rifle recoiled 1/10 of an inch, before the bullet got out the barrel!
As a point of interest, the lead sled you have may have been mine! If it was a close relative that gave it to you, PM me and I'll give you details.
At the range I shoot at they have diving weights bolted together in a stack of about 5 per, you can put a couple of stacks on the sled if you want. Of course the cost was minimal as one of the members has a mould for the diving weights.
