Caliber Choice 308 vs 300Wing Mag and Optics Question

countyboy said:
As far as recoil, I hate to admit I am some what sensitive to it. I have just got back into shooting after 15 years away and I find my Win 70 HBar in 308 (without recoil pad) quite sufficient for recoil. 300 Win mag is more than I probably want. Although I did have a 338 win mag at one time.
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Well I've been target rifle shooting for those fifteen years that you've been away, firing about 20,000 rounds in that time from my .308 target rifle. Which weighs about twice as much as a hunting rifle (so its recoil is only half that of a hunting rifle); and it has a recoil pad; and I shoot it with a sling and heavy leather shooting jacket that includes a good thick shoulder pad. And to this day, I must still constantly fight away a tendency to flinch and produce a poor shot....! It's not that the rifle hurts me when I fire it; it's that it is such a huge, startling event, that a poor shooter's brain quite reasonably decides to try to "get away from what's about to happen". Result: a flinch, that oftentimes ruins an otherwise good shot delivery. Even though I've fired *much* bigger rifles, without getting hurt, it still takes a huge amount of mental concentration and discipline for me to produce a trigger break on my .308W target rifle that is as good as that which I can produce while dry-firing.

(guess that's a *LONG* way to say that there's no need to hate to admit that you're "somewhat sensitive" to a .308's recoil).

I like the sound of 308 being fairly easily to reload ( I am really looking foward to reloading) and the cost being reasonable. (223 might be the cheapest but I want the most flexibility for the money I can get.
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You'll have a wonderful time with it - congrats!
 
As far as recoil, bullit weight can make a big change in recoil as well something to consider. My 300 winmag with 150g is a pleasure to shoot but put 180-220g and your talking a whole new beast. My 308 on the other hand throws 180's all over the place but 150's seem to be tack drivers so I stick with 150 which you can shoot all day long, even my wife shot the 308 and was surprise that it did not kick much at all. If I was to choose one gun I would go with the 308 hands down for many reasons including cost. And a 308 will take large game ie; Moose not problem what so ever.
 
I know this guy that has a 2 month old 4200 tactical he is selling on the ee board right now that would suit your needs......
 
Ok I think I figured it out and requested access to the ee. Maybe I am tired tonight but it took me a bit to figure out!

I am interested in the 4200. I will try to have a look at it when I get access.
 
I got a 700 XCR in 308 and I LOVE it. I put a Falcon Menace on it for $450. Awesome scope, Awesome rifle! :)

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HI Wally

Nice Rig!

A few questions for you: Which Menace did you get? is it the 4-14x44mm? And what base and rings did you get.

I would like a decent scope but I don't want to spend much above $500. If I spend 700-1000. I will just be wishing I had got a Mk4 for a few hundred more.
 
countyboy said:
HI Wally

Nice Rig!

A few questions for you: Which Menace did you get? is it the 4-14x44mm? And what base and rings did you get.

I would like a decent scope but I don't want to spend much above $500. If I spend 700-1000. I will just be wishing I had got a Mk4 for a few hundred more.
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I have the same setup as Wally. I had the 4-14x44 in Leopold MK4 rings on a Warne 20 MOA rail on my XCR TLR 300 win mag. I shot it out to 1000 once and 800 on numerous occasions. The scope worked fine (I upgraded it to leupold Mark 4 LRT in the end) The only problem I had with the scope was after I zeroed it at 100 and turned 15.5 moa to get me to 800 I was off 3 moa. I corrected for it and was shooting at 800 and holding zero out there. When I came back to my 100 yard zero I was still 3 MOA high. I reset the turrets and it has tracked perfectly ever since. It is on my buddys 700P LTR .223 right now and will be going on my new build until I can afford a Nightforce.
 
Another vote for .308. I skipped the 300 and will be going straight to 338 LM for longer distance.

The XCR is a nice rifle too. I just find it hard to justify the extra cost. Especially with the availability of the 5R being very good here in Canada. Every time I decide to start looking at a XCR I end up getting another 5R. :redface:

The Falcon are good scopes. I find the adjustments a bit too mushy on mine (older models now) but the glass does the job and it tracks properly. Good features, good reticles and the price is good. I do however prefer more eye relief and a fixed constant eye relief at all magnifications but you tend to pay more for that. The 4-14x 44mm is better in this regard than the 4.5-18x. The new FFP scope looks very promising as well.

For scopes: I make no bones about it. I love the NF scopes. But I really don't love the price. I also really like the Zeiss Conquest. The glass is right up there with the NF, the repeatability/tracking is also flawless, and the adjustment clicks are excellent as well. Like the NF scope the Conquest has fixed eye relief for all magnification levels. Scopes such as Leupold VXiii, VX3 etc don't. However the Conquest when compared to the NF isn't as durable in construction, the controls aren't as smooth and I prefer the reticles on the NF. Also you don't get the adjustment range (1" tube compared to 30mm) But... you pay twice as much.

I'll be giving the Siii Sightron a try on my second 5R. From everything I've read it's a very nice scope. Unfortunately I haven't tried one in person yet.
 
Wally and cdnredneck_t3

I am getting a 5R with Leupold Mk4 1 piece base. What height rings should I get to accomodate a 44, 50 or 56mm Falcon?

Thanks,

Countyboy
 
countyboy said:
Wally and cdnredneck_t3

I am getting a 5R with Leupold Mk4 1 piece base. What height rings should I get to accomodate a 44, 50 or 56mm Falcon?

Thanks,

Countyboy
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On my 20 MOA rail mediums work for my 50MM leupold. There is not much room with the 50 but there is enough. You might be able to go with low rings with the 44mm falcon but I would say stick with the medium incase you upgrade down the road. Oh, I should add that a 0 moa base will give you more room at the front and a 40moa base might be to much angle that you may need high rings if you go that route.

Mine is also on a long action XCR which my change things a bit from from a short action. I would do a mock up at a store before you purchase.
 
Hi Guys

I think I am going to go with Falcon 4.5-18x56mm MOA ML16. The IR has the cool factor and I don't think 14x is enough mag (I was at the range today with my Win 70 with 12x and I would like more mag). It doesn't have FFP but I don't think that I will be needing that very often. ML16 will probably work with one mag just fine for all that I would ever use it.

I think I will try the Mk4 Medium Rings on a Mk4 Tactical 15MOA one piece base. I hope they fit!

Thanks again for all your help!!!

Countyboy.
 
countyboy said:
Hi Guys

I think I am going to go with Falcon 4.5-18x56mm MOA ML16. The IR has the cool factor and I don't think 14x is enough mag (I was at the range today with my Win 70 with 12x and I would like more mag). It doesn't have FFP but I don't think that I will be needing that very often. ML16 will probably work with one mag just fine for all that I would ever use it.

Countyboy.
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I would consider looking at the new Falcon scope in 5.5-25x . FFP isn't needed, but it's nice. More importantly the eye relief is substantially improved to almost 3.5" for the new ones, versus 2.83" for the 4.5-18x at maximum magnification. The ML-16 reticle is almost the same as the NP-R1 reticles on my NF scopes. I have the IR feature on my 4.5-18x. Given the choice between IR and more scope, I'd go with more scope.
 
countyboy said:
If I spend 700-1000. I will just be wishing I had got a Mk4 for a few hundred more.
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Yes you will.. then you will wish you had bought a night force for a few more yet..LOL... It is a never ending few hundred dollars.. but I can tell you I have a 4-16X50 4200 Bushnell and what I do on 16 with it i do on 6 with my night force.

Also a friend has a 4-14 FFP Menace and I have to call his shots for him at 300 as he can't see them..

Just my 2 cents.. and that is probably all it is worth..
 
The problem with the 25x Falcon's is that they are metric... won't that be a giant pain for my small imperial brain (I watched too much American TV as a kid)?

The 25x comes with FFP so the only thing I would miss is the IR (don't need it except the cool factor) but metric... ewww...

Seriously Though will I be able to work with Metric. Is 1 click still 1/4" but just in metric?
 
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