Calibers for Standard Div. IPSC in Canada Advice please

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Safeside

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I am currently shooting in production and having a great time. Still have tons to learn.
I am interested in potentially shooting in standard division as well and have two questions.
1) What calibers are competitive and why?
I understand the rules. In Canada Standard is a 10 round magazine. So Advantaves like magazine capacity shouldn't count. No comps, so P+ 9 mm and .38 super, should have a benifit.
Is .45 ACP in say an STI edge a disadvantage over a .40 or major 9mm or .38 super.
I hear the .45 died as a competition caliber in the 1980's, but was that really because of capacity and comp preformance or was the caliber just not competitive for another reason.
2) Best gun for standard. I am hearing lots of great things about the STI edge, Tanfoglio, and a CZ.
Which is best and why?
Thank you in advance for you advice.
 
If you want to shoot major in standard division you have to shoot 40 cal or larger except 357 sig is allowed.
The big disadvantage of shooting 45 is that it costs about $100/1000 more then 40.
The best guns out there to shoot standard is either an STI (pick your model) or an SVI (18 month wait for a new one.) Everything else is trying hard.
 
First decide if you're going to shoot Minor or Major. Minor you'll have to be very accurate, less points. Major, not so much, can get away with Alphas & Charlies, but you 're dealing with more recoil.

Is .45 ACP in say an STI edge a disadvantage over a .40 or major 9mm or .38 super.
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Generally, most go with 40 Major, brass is cheap and easy to find and you're getting maximum points. 38 Super brass is very expensive and hard to find. 45 is easier to find but still not cheap.
As you know, 9mm is a sharp little snap, 45 is a large push snap, and 40 Major is in between, a harsh snap, no push.

Thumb rest (gas pedal) is a key for many people including myself in Standard. The Tangs come drilled and tapped from the factory for this.

As far as best gun goes, hard to say, I prefer Tang's for the weight (all steel) and grip angle. I have shot the STI DVC Standard and it's very nice as well, much lighter and feels smaller.
CZ's feel very similar to Tang's.

The new CZ 75 Tactical Sport Orange looks interesting, but only in 9mm I think. Comes with the thumb rest included, which is nice. Haven't shot one yet

I'd say get something in 40, you can load Minor or Major. If you get a 9mm, you're stuck shooting Minor.
 
You want to get a .40 cal 2011 pistol. CZ or tanfo will never match a great 2011 trigger. STI builds good guns for +- 3000$ or SVI will build the ultimate 2011 for about 6-7000$ a few in stock at CRAFM in MTL
 
This is an excellent start. i steady shoot 9mm in production.
I would like to shoot Standard in major ( I should have been more clear). Which probably boils down to a .40 vs .45. ( despite saying I know the rules forgot about 10mm rule for standard major)
I already reload for .45, and have some brass and other supplies for it. But not a good, IPSC standard gun.
As I contemplate the decision between .40 and .45, I keep coming up againt advice that puts the .40 first, but primarily for capacity reasons, or price of factory ammo. For some reason 9mm p + and .38 Super get thrown in too.
With double stacked magazines capped at 10 in Canada, is there a real advantage to .40 over .45?
I don't know much about the guns are preferred, so you commentary is gold.
Keep it coming.
 
The advantage is cost as others have stated. You reload for 45 acp but you probably do not regularly lose 300 to 400 brass casing which you will as some matches are lost brass matches. That is why most people shoot 9mm as it is cheapest. Most folks who shoot major in standard shoot 40 as it is cheaper. Also 10 round 45 acp single stack mags are deemed too long and are now prohibited. Everyone will have 10 round mags and you will have 8 rounds that will be a disadvantage.
 
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JBD said:
Also 10 round 45 acp single stack mags are deemed too long and are now prohibited. Everyone will have 10 round mags and you will have 8 rounds
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Not if he buys a double stack 45...Edges, Executives, etc. are all available in 45 as well as 40 - same grip size. Same goes for Lim Customs - same grip size - 40 or 45.


OP; We sell 99% of guns for Standard Division competition in 40. We do sell the occasional 45 - like they say, it's about cost of shooting. 40 brass is plentiful and cheap in Canada thanks to all of Ontario LE using it. 40 projectiles are cheaper than 45s. You'll get more rounds downrange for the same price in 40 and that is what will make you a better shooter. Then there's resale value - you're going to sell a 40 cal standard gun easier than a 45 if you ever get tired of it.

Now if $ is not an issue, then pick whatever your heart desires - and you're absolutely right - if you're not planning on shooting outside of Canada; the extra capacity of 40 is irrelevant.

:cheers:
 
What Sean said.
Think hard about whether or not you'll shoot south of the border. If you do, capacity matters.
My advice is to buy an STI Edge in .40, shoot it lots and he good with it. It's the best gun on the market for what you are looking for and save the money you would have spent on brass and use it for bullets and powder, shoot lots.
 
I am partial to the tanfoglio 40's,....I have owned 2 2011 STI Edges...awesome guns..great quality, but I use a tanfoglio for production and Open,..so it makes sense for me for a few reasons. (holster, I don't have to change if I run a race holster, and I use the guga / hill mag pouches.. also spare parts are plentiful, and some parts are the same in the guns), but more importantly, my muscle memory is set up for Tanfoglio. I have a Limited Custom .40, which is good to go out of the box, but you can also get a few Xtreme or Henning parts to customize it. Another option is to get a tanfoglio L model in 40, a more feasible option and add parts that you think will make it more competitive. I have owned one, and hope to pick up another in the future. It is a small frame 40, and is about the same weight as the Limited Custom. It absorbed recoil very well. Only thing I would add are a magwell and change a few springs, and likely an Xtreme firing pin.
YOu can run the L Model in 40, and run it in production OR standard.
ANother option could be a tanfoglio Stock2 Australian in 40,....(there are other options, but I prefer Tanfoglio, as it fits my smaller hands better than the STI platform)
 
I too shoot a Tanfoglio limted custom (40) fits my hand very well and is a tack driver
 
carlchevalier said:
You want to get a .40 cal 2011 pistol. CZ or tanfo will never match a great 2011 trigger. STI builds good guns for +- 3000$ or SVI will build the ultimate 2011 for about 6-7000$ a few in stock at CRAFM in MTL
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For that money buy an SVI not an STI waste of money.. I disagree about the whole STI better then Tanfo. I have shot both and the trigger is not any better especially for the price difference. I'd buy a CZ tactical sport instead.
 
Fantastic discussion guys. It is pretty clear that .40 is the way to go. Despite my bias going in, the weight of opinions and the solid reasoning behind it, just makes sense, thank you. I am very much enjoying the discussion on which firearm is worth a try and the money. Thank you for your considered opinions. I look forward to hearing more.
Again can't that the communitee enough for the time to share your expertise, experience and time.
 
Safeside said:
Fantastic discussion guys. It is pretty clear that .40 is the way to go. Despite my bias going in, the weight of opinions and the solid reasoning behind it, just makes sense, thank you. I am very much enjoying the discussion on which firearm is worth a try and the money. Thank you for your considered opinions. I look forward to hearing more.
Again can't that the communitee enough for the time to share your expertise, experience and time.
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Switch to OPEN, 9mm major, little more for purchasing the firearm but after that cost is just about same no matter what you shoot.
 
I am still on the steep part of the learning curve for IPSC. Standard just happens to be the next division, I am interested in shooting. Chances are, I will shoot open at some point too. Each seems to be a little different with certain skills and nuances to ammo and style. Personally my goal is to be a well rounded shooter, which to me means being exposed over time to each of the divisions. So I don't see anything in particularly special about any division.
 
Don't overlook Revolver division.

Pros:
- you get pretty much 100% of your brass back due to it being secured in moon clips
- You can spin the cylinder like they do in the movies, which is pretty cool.
- and most importantly, you are 100% guaranteed to place top 10 at the nationals

Cons:
can't really think of any...
 
Each seems to be a little different with certain skills and nuances to ammo and style
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Top shooters will be at the top no matter what you give them, albeit it may take a smidge of time.

When you have the fundamentals down pat and you give someone like Sevigny a Glock, 1911, FNS, Tang or a CZ, it's really not going to matter much.

Just my 2cts.

Pick something you like, feels good, practice your ass off and have fun.
 
Lots of excellent advice.
I had to take a 24 year break from shooting, career and kids. But back in 1991 I did shoot revolver in IPSC. S&W 586
I can't agree more, the best shooter, are the ones with solid fundamentals, and they are just going to win.
As for me I am having a blast, training lots, both dry fire and range time. I get to shoot with a great bunch, and try and make as many matches as possible. I am a lot slower than, I was in 1991, but I have more money for ammo, and my kids are now grown up.
I really appreciate the great advice.
 
TACTICAL111 said:
When you have the fundamentals down pat and you give someone like Sevigny a Glock, 1911, FNS, Tang or a CZ, it's really not going to matter much.
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Sevigny is a professional who shoots & trains every day and yes, it doesn't matter much. (but you can bet your butt he's not shooting a box stock version of any of those guns either.)

If one of us gets the fundamentals down pat - we're still amateurs and a quality firearm that offers design advantages that will give us advantages over those that are not shooting the design advantage guns. At the very least - we'll level the playing field with the other amateurs that are shooting guns with design advantages.

"It's the Indian not the arrow" comparison only works for pros; not common schmucks who have to work other jobs for a living like those of us discussing this here.
 
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