Calling all dutch AR10 Sudanese contract specialists

H Wally

H Wally

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Hoping someone on the boards knows enough about these rare beasts to answer some questions.

Do you know if the Sudanese contract Netherlands AR10's have a different bolt head from the Portuguese ar10 built heads?

Do any of the current generation of ar10 bolt heads lock into, headspace, or fail to close on go-gauges in the sudanese AR10's?

Heck... are there even owners in Canada?
 
There are quite a few Sudanese AR10s in Canada. Some are war-worn junk, but there are also Sudanese (and other) Dutch AR10s that came direclty fromm the factory, never having been carried by a soldier.

Theere are two major variants of the bolt heads. The earlier bolts (Hollywood, Cuban, Sudan, Transitional) had narrow lugs that look roughly like DPMS/armalite lugs of today. The later Portuguese contract rifles had really wide bolt lugs. In Pikula's book and the AR-10'er newletter it states that a narrow lugged bolt will work in a Porto rifle. There is no reason to try this. If you have a early narrow lugged bolt and want a Porto bolt I will make that trade in a heartbeat.

The narrow lugged bolts had some design details changed in order to add strength. Unfortunately, these bolts tend to fail with one lug shearing completely. As a result the narrow lugged bolts are scarce.

It is possible to re-barrel your Sudanese AR10 and solve your bolt problem. In Holland it is not uncommon to see a Sudanese style AR10 with a Portuguese barrel and bolt head. This can be done using the Portuguese handguard system or modifying the barrel to accept the Sudanese front end.

It is also possible to put a DPMS 308 barrel and bolt together in your AR10. This requires shimming the barrel extension to fit the upper. A custom firing pin is required as well. I know of two rifles in this configuration.

Below are some bolts, from left top right:
Hollywood, Sudanese, Portuguese, Transitional

zlatdt.jpg
 
Last edited:
can14 said:
There was also a lot of parts imported for these guns in Canada and
The US
Click to expand...

Jack Martinez (deceased) from Bakersfield CA had bought and sold a trove of AR10 parts. For instance the NOS sudanese handguards came from the AI factory through him. He had a bunch of small parts and some estate leftovers (like triggers, disconnectors, and buttplates) sold recently in numbers.

I have seen only one spare bolt carrier group in the US that was factory fresh, And maybe two factory fresh Dutch barrels.

My collector friends in Holland complain that it is impossible to find spares in HGolland and there seem to be more spares in North America. One explanation for this is that almost all of these parts can be marketted on fleabay, gunchoker, and a number of open forums.
 
Lee Enfield said:
According to a fellow who used to post here who is an ar10 collector, no original parts are compatible with any of the current "ar10" based guns.
Click to expand...

That's what I was looking for. Saves me having to buy a BCG to find out :p

HHollow said:
There are quite a few Sudanese AR10s in Canada. Some are war-worn junk, but there are also Sudanese (and other) Dutch AR10s that came direclty fromm the factory, never having been carried by a soldier.

Theere are two major variants of the bolt heads. The earlier bolts (Hollywood, Cuban, Sudan, Transitional) had narrow lugs that look roughly like DPMS/armalite lugs of today. The later Portuguese contract rifles had really wide bolt lugs. In Pikula's book and the AR-10'er newletter it states that a narrow lugged bolt will work in a Porto rifle. There is no reason to try this. If you have a early narrow lugged bolt and want a Porto bolt I will make that trade in a heartbeat.

The narrow lugged bolts had some design details changed in order to add strength. Unfortunately, these bolts tend to fail with one lug shearing completely. As a result the narrow lugged bolts are scarce.

It is possible to re-barrel your Sudanese AR10 and solve your bolt problem. In Holland it is not uncommon to see a Sudanese style AR10 with a Portuguese barrel and bolt head. This can be done using the Portuguese handguard system or modifying the barrel to accept the Sudanese front end.

It is also possible to put a DPMS 308 barrel and bolt together in your AR10. This requires shimming the barrel extension to fit the upper. A custom firing pin is required as well. I know of two rifles in this configuration.

Below are some bolts, from left top right:
Hollywood, Sudanese, Portuguese, Transitional
Click to expand...

HHollow said:
Jack Martinez (deceased) from Bakersfield CA had bought and sold a trove of AR10 parts. For instance the NOS sudanese handguards came from the AI factory through him. He had a bunch of small parts and some estate leftovers (like triggers, disconnectors, and buttplates) sold recently in numbers.

I have seen only one spare bolt carrier group in the US that was factory fresh, And maybe two factory fresh Dutch barrels.

My collector friends in Holland complain that it is impossible to find spares in HGolland and there seem to be more spares in North America. One explanation for this is that almost all of these parts can be marketted on fleabay, gunchoker, and a number of open forums.
Click to expand...

Appreciate that info HHollow. Might be some options there at least.


cyclone said:
Not to be "that guy", but did Ian's videos shed any light on the matter? I know he's currently doing an AR-10 build.
Click to expand...

Haha - nothing I've seen on his videos, but no harm in asking him directly I guess.
 
The guns were turned into parts kits for America. Lower receivers were made to make complete rifles. Complete guns came to Canada and a lot of parts to rebuild them . I think Lever Arms had the most variations of these guns
 
can14 said:
The guns were turned into parts kits for America. Lower receivers were made to make complete rifles. Complete guns came to Canada and a lot of parts to rebuild them . I think Lever Arms had the most variations of these guns
Click to expand...

I corresponded with several former Lever arms employees about their AR10s. One ever remebered handling the KLM airline survival guns and could describe the gun to such a degree to prove it.

Lever Ams imported unissued AR10s from the factory as well as whatever surplus was available.
 
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