Campro bullet problems! Care to help?

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regulate34

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So I’m super excited about me new Henry 45lc.
Been burning powder like mad the last week.

Here is my issue.

I’ve loaded with LilGun Imr4227 and Trail boss. (250g campro .452 plated)
Lilgun and 4227 loads ranging form 1000fps up to 1500fps
I am getting horrible groups/shotgun pattern!
I’m even getting flyers that will completely miss a 16”x16” target at 100 yrds

First I had a 4moa red dot. Thought maybe it was giving me a issue. So I stole a leupold off my 243.
Still having issues.

Finally I got my 250g XTP bullets in. Did a quick ladder test with lil gun
Loaded some 5shot strings and it’s holds 1.5-2” group at 100 yrds
So the gun and scope shoots fine

That load (250g XTP 24.6g lilgun Adv:1635fps ES:44fps SD:15fps

That identical load with campro bullet (adv:1552fps ES:177fps SD: 60fps)

Then I was looking at campro website and their data. It doesn’t list velocity’s. But I crossed them over to Hodgdon website. All of them are under 1000fps. Thought maybe they are just ment for really slow CAS.

So I went out back with some Trailboss loads.
It got worse. Here is a example. Adv:675fps ES: 424fps SD:152fps

What’s going on?
Why such a huge velocity spread with them?

One thing I noticed is they actually measure .453”
They are also .5g +/- of 250g.

The flyers? I’m wondering if the copper plating is tearing up?
But no signs of it in the barrel.

I have sent them a Email.
But I’m the mean time. What do you guys think?
 
Campro bullet or any plated bullet are to be used at lead bullet velocity. There is some exception in the Campro line…9 mm 121 / 124 and the .38 super - .357 bullet that can stand up to 1300/1400.
I am shooting 9 major 121 grains at 1440. They hold but I am probably close to what they can withstand.

For your 45 LC should be around 1200. You are pushing the 45 LC to over limit.
1560 is the max for a 250 grains bullet in most manual i got. Short case life..blown primer pocket and accelerated wear on your gun will be in your futur if you do not back down.

You are too hot..for the 250 xtp and the Campro.
It’s not a .454 you have.. a .45 Lc.
 
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Janeau said:
Campro bullet or any plated bullet are to beused a lead bullet velocity. There is some exception in the Campro line…9 mm 121 / 124 and the .38 super - .357 bullet that can stand up to 1300/1400.
I am shooting 9 major 121 grains at 1440. They hold but I am probably close to what they can withstand.

For your 45 LC should be around 1200. You are pushing the 45 LC to over limit.
Click to expand...

This is in a rifle. Not a hand gun. You can get more velocity out of a 45colt then the old days.

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

Regardless. I have played around that velocity. Still getting flyers and bad groups with large velocity spreads
 
regulate34 said:
Ok. Then why am I seeing the same results at 1000-1200fps?
Click to expand...

I really wouldn't listen to him. Nothing he has said is correct in your circumstances. I have pushed both those bullets at much higher pressure and velocities and had no issues. I still have thousands of the campro .45 loaded to 40,000 psi. They shoot excellently out of my Super Redhawk. There are no blown primers or anything else he is warning about I have used their .308 110 out of an M1 Carbine, velocity was over 2000fps. No issues again...

As mentioned, your accuracy is apparently excellent. 1.5-2" is really very good for such a setup. If the numbers don't bother you too much I would carry on. Otherwise things like a Magnum primer or heavier crimp may help reduce your ES. It will require diligent investigation but nothing too complicated.
 
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The very first question I would have to ask to figure this out is, are you weighing the powder, or throwing charges?? +/- 0.2 grains is almost a 1/2 grain from highest to lowest in a case where that would be quite the % of fill difference.....

how did you determine your COAL? what COAL are you using? seated long, your pressure is way down, seated deep the opposite, regardless, I've pushed plated to 2000 FPS tens of thousands of times and never had an issue, and, never had an issue at 2400 FPS in a rifle.....so high speed bullet is not an issue as far as I can tell, if anything, I think you may be to slow.......

Campro has 45 colt loading data on their website for this bullet, when all else fails, I'd compare your data to theirs
 
My experience with plated bullets is if you apply too much of a crimp accuracy goes to hell.
Pull down a loaded round, if there is anything greater than a faint line around the bullet the crimp is the likely culprit.
YMMV
 
You have to realize that Campro make excellent plated cast bullets but they are not jacketed bullets like the XTP. The XTP bullet is going to have much tighter tolerances and a thicker and harder jacket. I use a schitload of Campro bullets and I've pulled many weird deformed bullets out of the bags. Never had a misshapen XTP. So understand the tolerances you are dealing with.

Also, I suspect the 45 Colt Campro bullets are more designed to shoot at close range from revolvers. So their data is going to be geared to low pressure 45 colt revolver loads that meet standard SAMMI specs.

The thing about the 45 Colt is that is has basically 3 load levels. The original 45 Colt level is really low because the cartridge is over 100 years old and data is kept low in case anyone uses an old gun. Then there are more modern guns that can take higher pressure and the big beefy revolvers that can take much higher pressure. Although most people think rifles are "stronger" than revolvers, the really strong revolvers can take more pressure than most lever actions.

So with your XTP loads, they are good, fine. 1.5-2 MOA is good. You might play around with them a bit and get better performance but what are you really trying to accomplish? A deer kill zone is much larger than 2" at 100 and you probably won't be shooting much past 150 at a deer anyway.

The Campro bullets are never going to be as accurate as XTP. I would do some sort of ladder test with the Camproi at 100 and see what level of velocity they want to shoot at. Lots of guys are passionate about cast bullets and tailor them to their rifles and handguns but it's a lot of work. When I used to use 45 Colt lever guns and revolvers the cast bullets were always for fun shooting and I used XTP for killing. Do the ladder test with various loads with the Campro and figure out what loads are hitting the best. You may have to keep velocity low as plating is not jacketing, but you never know.

And yes, plated bullets may foul more as plating is softer than jackets.
 
B said:
I really wouldn't listen to him. Nothing he has said is correct in your circumstances. I have pushed both those bullets at much higher pressure and velocities and had no issues. I still have thousands of the campro .45 loaded to 40,000 psi. They shoot excellently out of my Super Redhawk. There are no blown primers or anything else he is warning about I have used their .308 110 out of an M1 Carbine, velocity was over 2000fps. No issues again...

As mentioned, your accuracy is apparently excellent. 1.5-2" is really very good for such a setup. If the numbers don't bother you too much I would carry on. Otherwise things like a Magnum primer or heavier crimp may help reduce your ES. It will require diligent investigation but nothing too complicated.
Click to expand...

I’m new to the 45 colt. But have found a lot of ignorance around the round due to the old revolvers.
I’m my ladder test with the TXP I took it up to 1750fps. No pressure signs primers looked fine.
But stopped their because the bullet wasent ment take that kind of expansion for hunting.
Didn’t know what velocity I was going to get. So I didn’t get any XTP/mags.
With the 250g XTP I’m quite happy. Should be a great deer round

I can change out the primer and see.
I also have 454 casull brass I want to trim down to colt length
Have a brick of small rifle mag primers and nothing to load them in.

How much crimp are you putting on the campro?
I have been going light because I read that you can damage the plating easily.

I bottom the crimp die on the case. Then 1/4 turn in.
 
yodave said:
The very first question I would have to ask to figure this out is, are you weighing the powder, or throwing charges?? +/- 0.2 grains is almost a 1/2 grain from highest to lowest in a case where that would be quite the % of fill difference.....

how did you determine your COAL? what COAL are you using? seated long, your pressure is way down, seated deep the opposite, regardless, I've pushed plated to 2000 FPS tens of thousands of times and never had an issue, and, never had an issue at 2400 FPS in a rifle.....so high speed bullet is not an issue as far as I can tell, if anything, I think you may be to slow.......

Campro has 45 colt loading data on their website for this bullet, when all else fails, I'd compare your data to theirs
Click to expand...
Campro data is all less the 1000fps

All my loads are hand weighed. never like just dumping into the case. Makes me parinoid lol

Col is 1.600” as per campro data.
Lines up in the cannalure nicely.
 
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Gatehouse said:
You have to realize that Campro make excellent plated cast bullets but they are not jacketed bullets like the XTP. The XTP bullet is going to have much tighter tolerances and a thicker and harder jacket. I use a schitload of Campro bullets and I've pulled many weird deformed bullets out of the bags. Never had a misshapen XTP. So understand the tolerances you are dealing with.

Also, I suspect the 45 Colt Campro bullets are more designed to shoot at close range from revolvers. So their data is going to be geared to low pressure 45 colt revolver loads that meet standard SAMMI specs.

The thing about the 45 Colt is that is has basically 3 load levels. The original 45 Colt level is really low because the cartridge is over 100 years old and data is kept low in case anyone uses an old gun. Then there are more modern guns that can take higher pressure and the big beefy revolvers that can take much higher pressure. Although most people think rifles are "stronger" than revolvers, the really strong revolvers can take more pressure than most lever actions.

So with your XTP loads, they are good, fine. 1.5-2 MOA is good. You might play around with them a bit and get better performance but what are you really trying to accomplish? A deer kill zone is much larger than 2" at 100 and you probably won't be shooting much past 150 at a deer anyway.

The Campro bullets are never going to be as accurate as XTP. I would do some sort of ladder test with the Camproi at 100 and see what level of velocity they want to shoot at. Lots of guys are passionate about cast bullets and tailor them to their rifles and handguns but it's a lot of work. When I used to use 45 Colt lever guns and revolvers the cast bullets were always for fun shooting and I used XTP for killing. Do the ladder test with various loads with the Campro and figure out what loads are hitting the best. You may have to keep velocity low as plating is not jacketing, but you never know.

And yes, plated bullets may foul more as plating is softer than jackets.
Click to expand...

My plan with the XTP is for hunting.
The campro I would like for a economic plinking round a I have range at the house with steel plates

I was expecting a larger tolerance range with the campro.
4-6” group at 100yrds I would be satisfied. Most of my plinking would be less then that.

My real consern is the random flyer that totally misses the target. Making me think the bullets are having a failure.

As for rifle strength. The big boy is biult for 44mag pressures. So from what I can find 30-32k should be no sweat.


Maybe back to a ladder test with them. Maybe with a mag primer
 
Depending on the maker didn't .45 Colt grooves run .454 in some and lately .452 ? A GC cast may be the cure and deadly on big game. Check with Jet Bullets to see what he's got.
 
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