Can a person accompany a hunter without hunting license in Ontario?

[Wendell]

The OP asked: "I am planning to hunt in the next couple weeks. my brother wants to come with me but he doesn't have hunting license. So i just want to know does anyone know whether can he come with me and just watching without handling my firearm?"

The posters in this thread have offered a lot of opinion (based perhaps on their experience, and/or their 'common-sense'), but few have offered links to the actual law. I, too, have seen and heard of all sorts of people getting away with all sorts of things, but merely getting away with something is not the equivalent of it being legal.

I'm going to assume that the OP is interested in knowing the law. If so, what really matters here is the law, because 'common-sense' and the law are two different things.

 

[Runningfool]

If so, what really matters here is the law, because 'common-sense' and the law are two different things.

They can be two different things but they are not always two different things.

The law was quoted in post #6. The op is free to interpret it as he wishes as we all are. According to what was quoted, simply searching for game without a licence is against the law. Practically speaking, however, we all know that people without hunting licenses search for game all of the time without being charged.

Another example: It is common practice to “scout” an area that a hunter plans on hunting and many times that takes place before a particular season begins, and yet who has ever been charged for doing that?

That is why I believe a bit of practicality or common sense needs to come into play. Could someone without a hunting licence be charged while hiking through the bush and watching deer with a pair of binoculars? According to the law they could. Would I advise someone hiking through the woods to avoid looking at deer with their binoculars because they could get charged for hunting without a licence? No I would not.

 

[Innavedaw]

The OP asked: "I am planning to hunt in the next couple weeks. my brother wants to come with me but he doesn't have hunting license. So i just want to know does anyone know whether can he come with me and just watching without handling my firearm?"

The posters in this thread have offered a lot of opinion (based perhaps on their experience, and/or their 'common-sense'), but few have offered links to the actual law. I, too, have seen and heard of all sorts of people getting away with all sorts of things, but merely getting away with something is not the equivalent of it being legal.

I'm going to assume that the OP is interested in knowing the law. If so, what really matters here is the law, because 'common-sense' and the law are two different things.

Knowing the law is important but only paints a partial picture...Lots of people are arrested / charged / ticketed despite not actually breaking the law and vice versa. Understanding the experience of others provides insight into how the law may be (mis)applied under similar circumstances...Personally, I am happy to add the true and lived experience of others to my own knowledge to help fully round out my decision making process...I expect the OP will find similar value...After all, that's the point of the forum - If he were only looking for the actual law, the MNR website is a much better resource.

 

[fratri]

Take your brother along..... let him see what most of us enjoy....

 

[yomomma]

Another one of these.

Doesnt matter what we think. Matters what the CO thinks IF he stops you. Thats a big IF btw

 

[memaquay]

Been stopped a few times while out bird hunting, with my first wife, and with a non-hunting buddy. Both were decked out in orange. CO never asked what they were doing, as there was only one gun and I was carrying it. Got stopped once with my step daughter and her friend. They were 11. Strangely enough they were thrilled when I shot a bunny. CO stopped us right after the bunny got bounced, and he was thrilled to see the girls with me, and was very supportive of them going hunting. This is all in Northern Ontario.

So I dont know what the law is, but my actual experiences with CO's have all been positive. Got a new young guy now who likes to charge people for everything, so not sure what he would say, but I will probably find out. My wife will be moose hunting with me this year, mostly cooking in camp and stuff, but she will certainly be paddling a canoe with me when I have a rifle. Any CO who would charge you for kids or wives........well, they need a lesson in how to be reasonable.

 

[cz1997]

Thanks for helping. really appreciate everyone. I am no going to use blind. Since there are only rabbits and coyote(not likely to meet on crown land). I think I would just walking around the crown land. I checked the regulations yesterday and found it is a grey area. So I posted the thread here. Really appreciate for helping!

 

[manicmechanic]

About 9 years ago when my oldest daughter was 12 she came along for a few days during our shotgun deer hunt in 86A.

A game warden stopped to check our group and questioned me why she was along. I explained I wanted to see if she was really serious and interested in coming out in the cold and snow of the December hunt and how she would react to seeing the deer being hunted/shot. I said that if she didn't enjoy the experience then I wasn't going to put her through the hunting / PAL course.

The warden said he appreciated that the course was expensive, and he said he likes to see the youth out in the outdoors carrying on family traditions and so forth. However, he explained he would have been well within his rights to lay a charge that amounted to harassing game as she wasn't licensed and was considered a participant of the hunt.

I'm sure if there would have been other infractions against any of our group of about 15, he would have charged her and I, but maybe because we as a group all had our licences / properly tagged animals / plugged shotguns / enough orange etc he gave us a break.....

 

[Trimmer 905]

Jeez, that makes it pretty tough to let your kids tag along!

My goodness, let’s apply a little common sense here. Being present with a licensed hunter and looking around is observing a hunt, not participating in it. No need to stare at your feet in a blind...seeing game isn’t a crime, just don’t point it out to your hunting buddy cause then you’d be participating.

According to the law, there is no distinction between a lone bird watcher or a bird watcher sitting next to a licensed hunter - both could theoretically be charged by a CO according to the law, and just as likely.

I’m sure any of us would be hard-pressed to find a CO that didn’t encourage licensed hunters to bring out friends and family who are interested in hunting, just so long as they are spectating of course and not actively participating. If the charge is hunting without a licence, the distinction between a passive spectator and an active participant is pretty obvious.

That's exactly why our laws are written they way they are. The parameters are wide open to do just that.

 

[holzmeister]

About 9 years ago when my oldest daughter was 12 she came along for a few days during our shotgun deer hunt in 86A.

A game warden stopped to check our group and questioned me why she was along. I explained I wanted to see if she was really serious and interested in coming out in the cold and snow of the December hunt and how she would react to seeing the deer being hunted/shot. I said that if she didn't enjoy the experience then I wasn't going to put her through the hunting / PAL course.

The warden said he appreciated that the course was expensive, and he said he likes to see the youth out in the outdoors carrying on family traditions and so forth. However, he explained he would have been well within his rights to lay a charge that amounted to harassing game as she wasn't licensed and was considered a participant of the hunt.

I'm sure if there would have been other infractions against any of our group of about 15, he would have charged her and I, but maybe because we as a group all had proper licences and plugged shotguns etc he gave us a break.....

I believe you Sir are spot on. It is really dependant on the CO's discretion. It is not IF you are hunting, it is COULD you be hunting. Personally I would think twice about it.

 

[macaufoto]

you can speed as much as you want, until you are caught by the cop and it is your job to explain to the CO and judge how he is not involved in the hunt.

 

[blasted_saber]

A CO is well within his rights to lay a charge, but I know of many circumstances where charges were not laid.

A lot depends on your attitude with the CO.

When it comes to kids; Id think you'd have to be an extraordinary dink to the CO to get him to lay that charge, or have the kid clearly doing something that is hunting (pushing a bush lot on his own, for instance).

 

[gerard]

Crazy. In nova scotia i can take some one hunting with me no issues. There can only be one rifle between the 2 of us though. He can even make the shot as long as i have the tags with me. Thats how people can take their kids hunting, friends and family.

Normaly nova scotia has strict dumb hunting/fire arm lawsm im surprised to see ontario has a worse one.

I hate to do this but in Nova Scotia no one can shoot your Deer for you. You have to shoot your own Deer. Your friend would be in violation of shooting a Deer without a license.
If he has a license but no firearm to hunt with than both of you can share one firearm. Which would make it legal.
No license, no shooting period.

 

[Magellann]

I believe you Sir are spot on. It is really dependant on the CO's discretion. It is not IF you are hunting, it is COULD you be hunting. Personally I would think twice about it.

That's what I would do as well.

 

[cooey43]

After 20 yrs. of giving the Hunter Ed. Course in Ont. , I would say ,,,,,any unlicensed hunter can accompany a licensed hunter , as long as they do nothing that meets the Provincial Huntings Regs definition of ,,,, "Hunting" . Basically ,,,,, they would be observing others who are hunting & perhaps helping
with game removal after the hunt is over .

 

[Evanguy]

I hate to do this but in Nova Scotia no one can shoot your Deer for you. You have to shoot your own Deer. Your friend would be in violation of shooting a Deer without a license.
If he has a license but no firearm to hunt with than both of you can share one firearm. Which would make it legal.
No license, no shooting period.

In the hunting regs says i can lend a rifle to someone without a pal as long as they are "with in arms reach of me" on page 90.

They know with out a pal you connot buy any rifle hunting tags or even take the hunters safety course. The youth liseces is so they can also buy tags them self aslong with the parent buying tags.

Target shooting in the woods is illegal here so the only reason one can have a gun in the woods is hunting.

If they cant buy a tag and you can shoot a gun in the woods without a hunting tag. Why does it tell me the rules around lending a gun to a non hunter. And uses the actually words " with in arms reach" like both being in the same deer stand.

 

[cooey43]

In the hunting regs says i can lend a rifle to someone without a pal as long as they are "with in arms reach of me" on page 90.

They know with out a pal you connot buy any rifle hunting tags or even take the hunters safety course. The youth liseces is so they can also buy tags them self aslong with the parent buying tags.

Target shooting in the woods is illegal here so the only reason one can have a gun in the woods is hunting.

If they cant buy a tag and you can shoot a gun in the woods without a hunting tag. Why does it tell me the rules around lending a gun to a non hunter. And uses the actually words " with in arms reach" like both being in the same deer stand.

I can only talk about Ont. Regs as I was a Hunter Ed Instructor there for 20 yrs.
The "Arms Reach" law is a Fed. Law ( across Can.) It is for a person without a PAL who can handle anyones gun within arms reach of the PAL person .
This would apply in Ont. for target shooting & hunting ( if the person had hunting licence , but no PAL ) .
Target shooting in Ont. is allowed in the bush . Certainly a stationary situation with targets set out is needed. Moving through the bush or fields
with a loaded gun is hunting , not target shooting .

 

[yomomma]

In the hunting regs says i can lend a rifle to someone without a pal as long as they are "with in arms reach of me" on page 90.

They know with out a pal you connot buy any rifle hunting tags or even take the hunters safety course. The youth liseces is so they can also buy tags them self aslong with the parent buying tags.

Target shooting in the woods is illegal here so the only reason one can have a gun in the woods is hunting.

If they cant buy a tag and you can shoot a gun in the woods without a hunting tag. Why does it tell me the rules around lending a gun to a non hunter. And uses the actually words " with in arms reach" like both being in the same deer stand.

Thats for borrowing/using a firearm under the firearms act. You still need to be licensed to hunt/shoot game

 

[silverfoxdj]

Thats for borrowing/using a firearm under the firearms act. You still need to be licensed to hunt/shoot game

^^^^^ This..

 

[Evanguy]

Thats for borrowing/using a firearm under the firearms act. You still need to be licensed to hunt/shoot game

Well maybe so, im pretty sure i remember learning about this in my hunter safety course though. But i very well could be wrong.

I was under the impression that if i had a pal, hunter safety card and propper tags and propper rifle for said tags, i could have one person who does not have a pal or hunters safety course or tags could be with me, carry the rifle and even shoot the animal under my direct supervision around 36" away or closer.

Im guess im not sure its within the law but i personally know many kids my daughters ages (8-14) that go hunting rabbits, phesants an deer with dads, uncles and grandfathers and have no issues posting about it on facebook and such