can anyone shed some light on this rifle? safari arms .58

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Bugrupt

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first off,I will get some better pics if need be, this was given to me years ago. I don't know the first thing about black powder rifles and have never fired this yet. It appears to have little to no mileage on it. Its heavy and appears to be well built..and it claims to be made in Italy but also has Toronto Canada on the top of the barrel. So is this the real deal? Quality gun? Thanks for any help you can lend
 
Safari Arms was a Canadian Importer bring in firearms manufactured by Investarms and also placed their Safari Name om them.

My books show a .570 round ball with a .010" patch on top of a charge of 60gr to 140gr of Goex FFG or Pyrodex. Same charge for Maxies as well. Listed for both 24" and 32" barrels.
 
I've a Safari Arms, very similar but in .50 cal. It's fun to shoot and I've found it quite accurate out to 100 yds with 385gr Great Plains HB-HP bullets. Greased patched .495" balls atop 60 gr Pyrodex are good for plinking.
 
Yup, like he said. Fun. .58 was a favorite back in the day when Safari was a going concern. .58 is the military front stuffer calibre so you could have hunting guns and re-enacting guns on the same ammo budget. It was never popular with the hunting crowd because although bigger it was neither faster or more KE over .54 cal. .54 is the biggest in hunting guns. I got 2 Safari Arms hawkens .50 myself. See Track of the Wolf for accessories, you will need about $200 worth to get shooting and cleaning. It's not old or antique either, it's a repro. Made about 1985 to 89. Are you selling?
 
I have a Pietta revolver with the same Safari Arms markings, from the picture it looks like the date code [AF] which would date it to 1980. It looks like it has decent sights on it and it appears to be in very good condition, if you are going to shoot it I am sure it will serve you well.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Investarms also made the Lyman barrels (if not the whole rifles?). Quality was Grade "A" in all the units I've handled/used, including my own.
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They still make the Lymans, Lock , Stock and barrel complete with Stamping "Lyman" on the barrel.
They also made guns for safari Arms with Safari Arms stamping and Churchill was another brand from Investarms.

I would swap a sweet longbow for that 58.
The capitol "I" in the box is Investarms Proof house registered logo.
 
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petew said:
They still make the Lymans, Lock , Stock and barrel complete with Stamping "Lyman" on the barrel.
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There ya go. Yes, mine (1991 or so) didn't say "Investarms" anywhere, I didn't learn until a couple years ago that Investarms made any part of it (never mind the whole thing). I built it from a kit then, and never looked back. Still going strong, no complaints.
 
Thanks for the interest and information, I'm not certain what I'm going to do with this rifle but I think I'm going to shine it up and find someone that's at least shot black power before and give it try. I'm really curious to see how it compares to what I'm familiar with.
 
One other thing is the barrel rifling twist. The twist will depend on which bullet you use. 1:60+ is a patched round ball only. 1:48 will shoot patched round ball or conicals and anything above 1:32 is super fast and should use sabots for the best accuracy. Twist should be stated on the barrel somewhere. If you do sell try $450 to start as .58 cal is rare.
 
Bugrupt said:
Thanks for the interest and information, I'm not certain what I'm going to do with this rifle but I think I'm going to shine it up and find someone that's at least shot black power before and give it try. I'm really curious to see how it compares to what I'm familiar with.
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The 58 bore has a solid reputation for lots of clobber at both ends. And don't fall for the 54 versus 58 being somewhat equal friend.
Back in the day the only way to attain more stopping/killing power with black powder firearms was to increase the bore diameter.
If this was not true then why were old time howdah rifles and pistols of larger caliber??
Read enough books and you'll find experienced hunters comparing very favorably, the shootable 58 muzzleloaders to modern 12 gauge slugs in stopping power at closer ranges.
That dude from NB is trying to get your fine rifle and is talking out of one side of his mouth IMO.
 
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I owned and shot one of those many years ago. It hurt! You say it is heavy, but I think you are coming from a modern rifle perspective. Mine only weighed about 7 1/4 pounds, and a previous owner had made a solid stainless/brass ramrod for it for extra weight. Dropping the hammer on 70 grains of black and a 500 grain Minie hurt! The buttplate is far too narrow for proper comfort, and yes, I can handle recoil, and yes, I started out shooting BP rifles - know where to hold it on the crook of your arm, not shoulder. That being said, I'd still shoot it.
 
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To each their own. I have a Enfield 1853 repro 58 cal.. 560 gr minie bullet started with 55 gr. FFG. had to see if the bullet left the barrel!!!. Now at 110 gr. FFg things are coming around. Accurate as well. Have fun with your new to you Bp rifle.
 
The Enfield has a wide, basically flat buttplate - the Investarms Hawken has a crescent buttplate that is maybe 1" wide, that's a huge difference! I shoot Sniders with heavier loads than that Hawken, and it's nothing, but the Hawken was pain!
 
Yeah the Cresent buttplate kinda rests on your upper arm. It's not a 'shoot all day' ergonomically designed wonder.
And I agree with Brutus; the easiest way to more power in BP is more bore size. I've a bit of 58 cal gear in my mess myself.
 
I've shot .58's for quite a few years, and the only time I used anything under 100 grains for them was for messign about at the target range , or 55 grains in a 50 yard competition.
Any other time I wouldl be loading 125 grains of FFG and normally a .570 ball and a .012 patch.
The Italian plains rifle copies like the Investarmes, the Lyman, Safari Arms, etc, have been found to typically be VERY thick in the cheek piece, so much so as to cause great pain when shooting a hunting load.
The cure is to thin the cheek piece down unitl the shooter's eye is right over the sights, so they don't have to put a lot of pressure on the cheek to get over to the sights.
I've adjusted many of them in the past for owners and every one was 100% better!
Cat
 
Greetings-I am shooting a .58 cal marked Cabela's using 55 grns of 2f with a 570 ball on a 15 thou lubed patch and find it very accurate out to about 60 yds and still hitting a larger target at 120 yds shooting about 8 inches high. Seems to be a good piece and almost a direct copy of the T/C Hawken.
 
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