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Oh? How about being a guest at various clubs when invited? Still not a member.. and there are very few clubs that do not allow visitors.
Fact is again.. the "membership is required" is BS and needs to be fought.
Can I buy restricted from Marstar before joining a club?
- Thread starter tonyhzhen
- Start date
Oh? How about being a guest at various clubs when invited? Still not a member.. and there are very few clubs that do not allow visitors.
Fact is again.. the "membership is required" is BS and needs to be fought.
I have never heard of an Ontario club, turn away a guest, that makes a great many places to shoot restricteds.
Your post gets filed in the useless category.
There are a lot of clubs that do no allow visitors and a number that only allow to visit a couple times before they require membership...
So how do you get an ATT? if you are a visitor you can use your friends guns...
Don't be surprised if you push this that the CFO will then demand proof that you've visited the clubs.. and will start revoking certs becuase of non-use for all folks... It's not really something I want to see... revoking ATT's and who knows what other stipulations they will make..
If your purpose is target shooting it's reasonable where there are not a lot of clubs that allow guests to look for a membership.. this isn't the same as BC or Alberta where most clubs are wide open and there are actually some that are free...
Remember ownership is a privilege not a right.. Do I agree with it No I don't but understand it..
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True but there are no rule in LAW requiring it.
There is no law requiring you to use someone else's gun if you are a guest either.
The CFO can check for guest/member attendance now and currently do so already. Pushing this will have no impact on that since they are already trying to do so to everyone.
To revoke or refuse paperwork they HAVE TO have proof that is necessary and legal.. and since there is no law forcing us to do as they say in their policy they cannot do such.
If everyone fights back they will back down on this BS since it will become a much bigger public issue and that they do not want.
"Remember ownership is a privilege not a right.. Do I agree with it No I don't but understand it.."
Yes and the LAW is the LAW... they have no basis within the LAW to do any of the above.. and only by us allowing them to do BS will they continue... if you don't fight back on this crap whats next??? The more they push the more we need to stand our ground.. otherwise they win and that I will not tolerate.
There is no law that says you have to be able to acquire a gun just becuase you have a license either.. You seem to believe that you have a right to guns and this is not the case..
You need an ATT and you get the ATT from the club so how do you get the restricteds to the range??
They will not back down.. They have already said if you are not using your guns that you will need to turn them in.. There is nothing to prove...
How exactly can the CFO check guest/membership now?? I understand that clubs do send membership lists.. But guests??? Most clubs I've been too don't require anything... Do they have mini-cameras at the gates or something???
This is not a fight that is worth fighting.. If your intention is to target shoot you will be a member of a club.. if your intention is to just own guns then you have a problem becuase that's not what you said your intention was... It's really not that complicated.. Yes there are those in Ontario that live right by the border and shoot in the US.. Yes there are exceptions to all of this.. But given the number of clubs that are being closed down becuase of the "range rulles" maybe it would be a great idea to be a member at your local club so there is a local club down the road..
Firearm ownership in Canada is a right. Do we feel it is a right, YES. Then it is a right. Is there a basis for it in Canadian law, YES. It is a right. All things before and including the BNA are carried into Canadian Law. We have the right to keep and have firearms for the purpose of defense of the self, family and property. Yes we do, yes it is there. There is no arguing this. The only argument is, have the powers that be recognized these facts that are there in printed law before them, NO. A right is something you assert, you cannot be granted a right in legislation. All legislation can do is recognize a right that is already there being asserted. Only when people elect to give up that right can it be legislated away. I do NOT choose to give up that right, therefore it can never be (and I will never accept it as such) legislated away, for me.
And to the OP, yes you can buy your restricted from Marstar without club membership. Your purpose is target shooting, you haven't decided on a club, you will try a bunch out, and you will get short term att's when you wish to go to pay by the hour places like Target Sports or Colby. Also, join an organization like IDPA, IPSC, CPCA, SASS, then you are automatically invited to all of their matches through out Canada and the USA (except CPCA), no need for membership in the clubs if all you want to do is shoot these matches.
And to the OP, yes you can buy your restricted from Marstar without club membership. Your purpose is target shooting, you haven't decided on a club, you will try a bunch out, and you will get short term att's when you wish to go to pay by the hour places like Target Sports or Colby. Also, join an organization like IDPA, IPSC, CPCA, SASS, then you are automatically invited to all of their matches through out Canada and the USA (except CPCA), no need for membership in the clubs if all you want to do is shoot these matches.
Your messed up, maybe you should just turn in your guns now, because it's a fight not worth fighting.
The CFO can deny whatever they want. If you want your first restricted transferred to you, they will say they need to see club membership to complete the transfer. If you won't and they refuse your transfer, who are you going to go crying to? Right or wrong, they have the power to deny your transfer. I have heard on here the Ontario CFO will allow transfers without club membership where the other provinces require it. If the CFO doesn't want to cut you some slack and approve your transfer, what are your alternative options? None as far as I know...
One that can be revoked at the drop of a hat. Never forget that.
I'm messed up because I'd rather choose a battle that has merit.. Just becuase you believe that any fight, is worth fighting doesn't mean I have to... Anarchy is not my calling...
And if you don't think there are bigger more important issues you really have a small view of things..
PS I believe you meant "You're" as in "you are..." if you're going to fight unwinnable battles you might want to brush up on your grammar skills at least you may look like you know what you are talking about..
As I said it's an interpretation that the CFO has taken and to date they have taken the "I'm looking" and done no followup.. However it's a position that may get changed if enough people start fighting it.. and they'll take another less palatable position...
Incorrect sir. A right is something that can NEVER be revoked, regardless of hat I am wearing.
Only a privilege can be revoked. A right is something that you have prior to any document or legislation stating it. A document does not say "you are hereby given the right", it says "you have the right". Meaning the right existed before the document. Only the individual can surrender a right, if they are no longer willing to assert it. Gun owners in Canada are our own worst enemies. Instead of asserting our gun ownership rights, we allowed (by complying) when the F.A.C. first came to be. I guess before that we didn't assert that right when we accepted handgun registration back in the early 1900's. Those people I guess didn't have the foresight to see what that would lead to all these decades later. We then later compromised our principles to our rights when we allowed (by complying) with Bill C-68, and on it goes. Compliance is the action of a subject not a citizen. A privilege can be taken away at anytime because it is something that is given through documentation or legislation. Many people now believe incorrectly that firearms ownership is a privilege due to the facts that we have allowed P.A.L.'s to exist and accepted that every gun must be registered to be legal. It is our own fault really. Citizens, not civilians or subjects, have owned firearms in Canada long before this current mind set, and will continue to own firearms long after the youngest of us are dead, regardless of what any government tries to do.
Incorrect sir. A right is something that can NEVER be revoked, regardless of hat I am wearing.
A privilege can be taken away at anytime because it is something that is given through documentation or legislation. Many people now believe incorrectly that firearms ownership is a privilege due to the facts that we have allowed P.A.L.'s to exist and accepted that every gun must be registered to be legal. It is our own fault really. Citizens, not civilians or subjects, have owned firearms in Canada long before this current mind set, and will continue to own firearms long after the youngest of us are dead, regardless of what any government tries to do.
and the supreme court has said we have no right... Unless you have some other court to go to that's the way it is right now...
wow! this thread is more exciting than football, so i decided"what the heck. I'll chime in"
To the best of my knowledge, and please notice I put emphasis on knowledge for a reason, we Canadians are have very few rights--as you explain them. We do not have the right to free speech, we do not have the right of freedom of assembly, nor do we have the right to bear arms. We have a Charter of Freedoms(these freedoms can be revoked). The only rights we have are under the Charter of Human Rights.
Now that said, do i aggree with all the stuff above...nope. But I ain't planning on moving either.
So let's make sure we post what we know(see I came full circle rather than what we think.
BTW this is one of the best thread jacks yet...didn't this start out a newbie question about buying???
To the best of my knowledge, and please notice I put emphasis on knowledge for a reason, we Canadians are have very few rights--as you explain them. We do not have the right to free speech, we do not have the right of freedom of assembly, nor do we have the right to bear arms. We have a Charter of Freedoms(these freedoms can be revoked). The only rights we have are under the Charter of Human Rights.
Now that said, do i aggree with all the stuff above...nope. But I ain't planning on moving either.
So let's make sure we post what we know(see I came full circle
rather than what we think. BTW this is one of the best thread jacks yet...didn't this start out a newbie question about buying???
wow! this thread is more exciting than football, so i decided"what the heck. I'll chime in"
To the best of my knowledge, and please notice I put emphasis on knowledge for a reason, we Canadians are have very few rights--as you explain them. We do not have the right to free speech, we do not have the right of freedom of assembly, nor do we have the right to bear arms. We have a Charter of Freedoms(these freedoms can be revoked). The only rights we have are under the Charter of Human Rights.
Now that said, do i aggree with all the stuff above...nope. But I ain't planning on moving either.
So let's make sure we post what we know(see I came full circle
BTW this is one of the best thread jacks yet...didn't this start out a newbie question about buying???
There are those here who will tell you that the BNA, the magna carta and the other centuries old laws are still in effect... Mind you there are those that will tell you the free men don't have to abide by any laws they don't want to as well... Although we have all these rights.. the Government has also decided that these rights don't apply if it serves the greater good on multiple occasions..
Democratic rights: generally, the right to participate in political activities and the right to a democratic form of government: Section 3: the right to vote and to be eligible to serve as member of a legislature.Section 4: the maximum duration of legislatures is set at five years.Section 5: an annual sitting of legislatures is required as a minimum. Mobility rights: (section 6): the right to enter and leave Canada, and to move to and take up residence in any province, or to reside outside Canada.Legal rights: rights of people in dealing with the justice system and law enforcement, namely: Section 7: right to life, liberty, and security of the person.Section 8: freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.Section 9: freedom from arbitrary detainment or imprisonment.Section 10: right to legal counsel and the guarantee of habeas corpus.Section 11: rights in criminal and penal matters such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.Section 12: right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.Section 13: rights against self-incriminationSection 14: rights to an interpreter in a court proceeding. Equality rights: (section 15): equal treatment before and under the law, and equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination.Language rights: generally, the right to use either the English or French language in communications with Canada's federal government and certain provincial governments. Specifically, the language laws enshrined in the Charter include: Section 16: English and French are the official languages of Canada and New Brunswick.Section 16.1: the English and French-speaking communities of New Brunswick have equal rights to educational and cultural institutions.Section 17: the right to use either official language in Parliament or the New Brunswick legislature.Section 18: the statutes and proceedings of Parliament and the New Brunswick legislature are to be printed in both official languages.Section 19: both official languages may be used in federal and New Brunswick courts.Section 20: the right to communicate with and be served by the federal and New Brunswick governments in either official language.Section 21: other constitutional language rights outside the Charter regarding English and French are sustained.Section 22: existing rights to use languages besides English and French are not affected by the fact that only English and French have language rights in the Charter. (Hence, if there are any rights to use Aboriginal languages anywhere they would continue to exist, though they would have no direct protection under the Charter.) Minority language education rights: (Section 23): rights for certain citizens belonging to French or English-speaking minority communities to be educated in their own language.
You don't need to be a member of a club to buy a restricted. You don't even need a firearms license to buy a firearm. Purchase and acquisition are separate actions. We sell firearms to people without a license, hold their product until they receive their license, and ship it to them/hand it off to them when the firearm is transferred or if in the case of a restricted ship it/hand it off to them once a conveyance is produced. Some dealers do this, some do not. Best to ask first before purchasing. Lots of times specials or deals come up the cannot wait for a license to show up. You'll make someone's day by letting them buy from you when their license is waiting to show up.
Nice job on the thread hijack, but when it boils down to getting a restricted transferred I have yet to year what you can say or do to get around CFO approval. If a CFO says you need a firearms membership and you refuse and argue, they can basically tell you to pound sand and hang up the phone. What do you do then?? The options I see are to either go with the collector status and deal with that or forget about your transfer. Is there a 3rd (legal) option I don't know about? I'm all for fighting the good fight but yapping on about rights and privileges is good and all but there's no tangable results there for someone trying to get a transfer.
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Having a License gives me that ability.
There is no requirement to be a MEMBER in order to get an ATT either.
With that BS attitude they won't
However some of us have the balls to pick that fight with them and they will back down since there is NO LAW stating we have to have a membership for ownership or for an ATT. They have "Policy".. but police is NOT LAW.
There is a #### of alot to prove... and wussing out as you apparently are won't do a damn thing other then to let them get away with the BS they are trying to pull.
C-68 gives the CFO's the right to check the attendance records for any approved range.. which they are already doing. ALL people going to a club must sign in.
Like ####ing hell it is not worth fighting... we already put up with way too much total #### now... never mind letting the asshats @ the CFO's dictate to us as if it is law...
again.. CFO Policy is NOT LAW.
On the contrary... owning a gun for target shooting is a perfectly valid reason legally and does NOT require membership at an approved gun range by LAW.
What part of that is so complicated that you fail to understand it?
That entire last part is quite irrelevant to the topic to say the least
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Are you a spinless Llamah??? Based on that single post it would appear so.
Therefore please turn in anything sharp that might possibly ever hurt anyone if you cannot understand that LAW is what we must abide by..
Policy is NOT LAW.
Posted reply was supposed to be to bear.23 not Doc. Note added to avoid any possible confusion.
No offense mean to Doc at all.
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Actually no they cannot. There is specific rules they have to abide by within our current laws.. they cannot simply choose to do so w/o valid reason.
http://www.nfa.ca/node/180
Read and learn please before claiming that ever again.
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