Hey I have a newbie reloading question. Im thinking about getting into reloading to satisfy my costly m305 habit. I have bought 1,000 rounds of milsurp 7.62 nato and have heard that theres something ado with the brass (needs to be resized or something) after firing before i can reload. So does anyone know anything about reloading this stuff/whether its worth it to save my brass or not? Also, how many times can one reload this brass?
Can I reload 7.62 Nato ammo?
- Thread starter GunNewb
- Start date
Hi. It depends on whether or not your brass has boxer or berdan primers. What make of ammo?
Boxer primed can be reloaded, but the primers are usually crimped in. Not a big deal, but the crimp has to be removed. Primer pocket just gets swaged or chamfered. 1,000 will take a while but it's a one time nuisance thing. Some of 'em can be difficult to deprime too.
The only other thing is that milsurp brass is a bit thicker than commercial. Not a big deal either. You just reduce the powder charge by 10%. Semi-autos require full lemgth resizing every time too. No big deal either. The brass always requires resizing. It's part of the reloading process.
Berdan primed brass can be reloaded, but berdan primers aren't available and it takes a lot more fuss to deprime 'em. Not worth the effort. Berdan primed brass does make slick drawer pulls though. Cut 'em, drill 'em and screw 'em. Then recycle the rest.
Boxer primed can be reloaded, but the primers are usually crimped in. Not a big deal, but the crimp has to be removed. Primer pocket just gets swaged or chamfered. 1,000 will take a while but it's a one time nuisance thing. Some of 'em can be difficult to deprime too.
The only other thing is that milsurp brass is a bit thicker than commercial. Not a big deal either. You just reduce the powder charge by 10%. Semi-autos require full lemgth resizing every time too. No big deal either. The brass always requires resizing. It's part of the reloading process.
Berdan primed brass can be reloaded, but berdan primers aren't available and it takes a lot more fuss to deprime 'em. Not worth the effort. Berdan primed brass does make slick drawer pulls though. Cut 'em, drill 'em and screw 'em. Then recycle the rest.
basically, it works like thiis- take a decapping pin or a nail that's long enough, and feel the INSIDE OF THE BOTTOM of the case- if you feel one large hole roughly in the centre, you CAN RELOAD IT- if it's got 2 small holes, you CAN RELOAD IT , but you need special tools- that's BERDAN primed- the one hole is boxer- most folks in north america junk the berdan stuff rather than get the special tools and primers- just too much work- the other thing to do is REMOVE THE CRIMP in the primer pocket - all nato brass has this- you can get tools for that too, and it needs only be done once
Your M305 will handle the NATO ammo just fine. A potential problem is in the dies that you use if you reload. 308 Win is NOT exactly the same as 7.62 NATO, there are differences enough to potentially affect functioning in your wpn. I recommend you talk to a knowledgeable gunsmith or reloader about die brand selection, and powder selection as well, since mil semi-auto's have unique gas properties and peak pressure profiles that certain powders were specifically designed for. You'll probably have to debur your primer pockets as primers on mil ammo are typically crimped. Hopefully they're boxer primers and not berdan. Good luck.
I have heard this many times. However, in all of the books I have read and studied, I cannot find the evidence to give credence to this myth, only evidence that it is just that, a myth perpetuated by the uninformed.
Both rounds start life with the exact same dimensions. Check it, I have using unfired rounds. However; when fired in a mil spec chamber, the brass is larger than when fired in a SAAMI spec chamber. A military firearm has a much looser chamber tolerance than does a SAAMI-spec'd chamber. No surprise there...
I understand by my own research and experimentation, that the problem falls, not in using military brass to reload, but using civilian brass in a military firearm. Since the chamber is larger, it needs more brass to fill it. Therefore, the heavier, thicker brass allows it to flow and stretch to fit this chamber whereas the thinner commercial brass could fail to do so and would rupture.
This led me to believe that an unsized once-fired commercial brass case that has been reloaded would easily chamber and fire in a military chamber. Having been blessed with a close relationship with an FN, I was able to test this theory many years ago. The unsized commercial reloaded cartridge chambered and fired just fine in the FN. The reverse cannot be said. The case is too long and will not allow the action of a SAAMI chamber to close and lock.
As long as you resize your brass back to SAAMI specs (which all F/L .308Win dies do) you will not experience any problems with feeding or firing. However, you are working your brass a lot which shortens case life, but that's how semi's go...live with it.
Enjoy...
SAAMI warns against firing 5.56mm NATO in a .223 Remington rifle. It mentions nothing about 7.62mm NATO in a .308 rifle. That said, lowering the charge weight a touch would be prudent.
http://www.saami.org/specifications...1-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf
As to the number of reloads, that's difficult to say because there are so many variables. Things that will lessen the number include hot loads, less-than-optimum brass and a larger-than-normal chamber. You can extend the life of cases by annealing them (heating up the necks - only! - with a torch); check your reloading manual or ABCs of Reloading for details when it's time.
http://www.saami.org/specifications...1-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf
As to the number of reloads, that's difficult to say because there are so many variables. Things that will lessen the number include hot loads, less-than-optimum brass and a larger-than-normal chamber. You can extend the life of cases by annealing them (heating up the necks - only! - with a torch); check your reloading manual or ABCs of Reloading for details when it's time.
Hey thanks alot you guys are all pretty helpful. Based on what I heard methinks ill just go here
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=287&CategoryID=58
for what looks like some normal 7.62 military made brass.(that way I'll be covered as far as the whole .308 vs 7.62 nato debate goes yes?) Then ill just get myself a reloader and be on my way. Unless anyone has any input?
thanks again!
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=287&CategoryID=58
for what looks like some normal 7.62 military made brass.(that way I'll be covered as far as the whole .308 vs 7.62 nato debate goes yes?) Then ill just get myself a reloader and be on my way. Unless anyone has any input?
thanks again!
As a suggestion, buy a copy of the ABCs of Reloading; it is a pretty good introduction to reloading. Read it before you go any further.
When you buy your reloading gear, make sure you get a reloading manual from one of the major reloading firms. The 'recipes' and advice in those can be relied on.
Welcome to the dark side.
When you buy your reloading gear, make sure you get a reloading manual from one of the major reloading firms. The 'recipes' and advice in those can be relied on.
Welcome to the dark side.
Look inside a fired case with a light at the flash hole. One in centre is Boxer and is easy to reload in most cases.
After resizing (with .308 Win dies) and checking trim length etc, you will also likely need to swage or ream the crimp ring around the primer pocket before inserting a new one with NATO cases.
To reload for your M14 type rifle you will need your prepped and sized cases,
large rifle primers
spitzer (pointed) bullets in the 147-173gr range (ex 150gr FMJ, 168gr BTHP, 165 Ballistic Tip, 150gr Pointed soft point etc)
A powder in the suitable burn rate range for the action of this type of semi auto gas rifle such as IMR 4895, H4895, AA 2495, BL C2, H335, Win 748, IMR 4064 (and there are others).
Data from a reputable source or manual for 7.62 or .308 Win using these powders. Some people start at a lower than book load for the NATO cases.
I have found for me pressure was fine at the starting loads for .308 cases.
After resizing (with .308 Win dies) and checking trim length etc, you will also likely need to swage or ream the crimp ring around the primer pocket before inserting a new one with NATO cases.
To reload for your M14 type rifle you will need your prepped and sized cases,
large rifle primers
spitzer (pointed) bullets in the 147-173gr range (ex 150gr FMJ, 168gr BTHP, 165 Ballistic Tip, 150gr Pointed soft point etc)
A powder in the suitable burn rate range for the action of this type of semi auto gas rifle such as IMR 4895, H4895, AA 2495, BL C2, H335, Win 748, IMR 4064 (and there are others).
Data from a reputable source or manual for 7.62 or .308 Win using these powders. Some people start at a lower than book load for the NATO cases.
I have found for me pressure was fine at the starting loads for .308 cases.
My main issue with the whole discussion is the implicit assumption that there's such a thing as a standard "7.62 NATO" round. There's no such specification -- there are at least three distinct major classifications, and variations from country to country:
http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-June01.html
The design emphasis was on interoperability, not on interchangeability -- so the emphasis was on the finished round meeting certain specs (chambering and firing), not on the brass meeting certain specs. Military chamber tolerances are also significantly looser than most reloaders would like (the emphasis is on a minimally trained infantryman being able to deliver many rounds reasonably on target with few malfunctions, not on sub-MOA delivery of single aimed shots).
There's a very good discussion of the reloading issues at:
http://www.303british.com/id36.html
http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-June01.html
The design emphasis was on interoperability, not on interchangeability -- so the emphasis was on the finished round meeting certain specs (chambering and firing), not on the brass meeting certain specs. Military chamber tolerances are also significantly looser than most reloaders would like (the emphasis is on a minimally trained infantryman being able to deliver many rounds reasonably on target with few malfunctions, not on sub-MOA delivery of single aimed shots).
There's a very good discussion of the reloading issues at:
http://www.303british.com/id36.html
There are differences although both rounds are considered interchangeable. Pressures are rated different as well. I wouldn't fire civilian ammo in a military design rifle as civ ammo is rated to higher pressures than mil. Using civilian ammo in some mil rifles may cause problems and can accelerate wear and tear on the rifle. It is worth finding out if the rifle was chambered and head spacaed for 308 Win or 7.62 NATO. I still recommend going with powders that were designed for semi-auto functioning. Talk to the manufcturer for their recommendation. Can't go wrong with getting the manufacturer's advice.
there's more than one thing in that article i don't agree with- and i've been shooting the m14/m1a/m305 for quite a while now- i think i got my first one in about 1980 or so-i also have 4 of the rifles from various manufacturers( one really old norc) so i have a DIFFERENT recipe for each one- each rifle has it's own "log book) detailing what was done to each load and the mods that were done to each rifle- best to get your information from many sources and glean and condense it into a set of rules for you; but i tend to take all these "how -to" articles with a large grain of salt; for example, the bit about forgetting factory ammo; as long as you stay away from the 180 grain stuff, you're fine- and sub moa is NOT what the majority of us are aiming for( excuse the pun)
A 3/8 counter sink on an electric drill will quickly remove the primer crimp. It will also champfer the case mouth. $7.00 at Home Hardware. This only has to be done once.
You can buy milsurp brass or 308 brass. Use one or the other. Don't mix. For M14 I prefer milsurp.
Use a lighter bullet. 150 to 175. Use the faster powders, as mentioned by others. 3031 to RL15 speed range.
Full length size each time.
Start at the START load in the book, and work up in 0.5 gr increments to find the load that cycles the action 100% and groups well. It is easier on brass and gun if you don not load near max.
MAX load is about 2 gr less if you use military brass.
FYI, the max load for NATO and commercial ammo is almost identical. I have made both.
In practice, both are typically loaded in the 55,000 to 58,000 psi range, although I have seen both as low as 50,000 and as high as 62,000 psi.
You can buy milsurp brass or 308 brass. Use one or the other. Don't mix. For M14 I prefer milsurp.
Use a lighter bullet. 150 to 175. Use the faster powders, as mentioned by others. 3031 to RL15 speed range.
Full length size each time.
Start at the START load in the book, and work up in 0.5 gr increments to find the load that cycles the action 100% and groups well. It is easier on brass and gun if you don not load near max.
MAX load is about 2 gr less if you use military brass.
FYI, the max load for NATO and commercial ammo is almost identical. I have made both.
In practice, both are typically loaded in the 55,000 to 58,000 psi range, although I have seen both as low as 50,000 and as high as 62,000 psi.
Uh NO! I reloaded a TRW M14 for years using Redding S type benchrest dies. Any 308 Win dies will work.
The only difference between 7.62 and 308 is the brass thickness which changes the internal volume slightly. On the outside the two are the same.
