Can I shoot my new M14 without a mag installed?

Kwattro

Kwattro

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I think my mag is borked. It won't lock in properly and gets pushed out when I cycle the bolt by hand. If I push it up all the way the bolt hangs up on the mag itself. Not cool. Hopefully John will get back to me soon...

So, I'd like to shoot my gun. Can I chamber a round without the mag and shoot it? :(
 
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m14

Just pull the charging handle all the way back and let it go, don't let your hand follow it back at all, just let it go. If you push the handle and bolt back you will run into all sorts of problems. Don't chamber a round and then close the bolt you risk a slam fire that way. A slam fire is when the bolt closes and the round goes off without a pull of the trigger.
 
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don't shoot it until you get a mag that locks up properly-even if you have to buy a new one or borrow one- the conseqences of an out of battery or slam fire are far more dire than to try risking it- you do realize that it rotates into place RATHER THAN JUST STRAIGHT IN?-no offense intended, but lots of folks need a course in m14/305/m1a basics- you should get a nice satisfying click when the rear of the mag locks in place
 
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Understood. Hopefully John at Marstar will help me resolve the mag issue then. It was painful to wait for this gun, but it's much worse having it and being unable to use it. :(
 
The risk comes from the fact that the bolt's design features a floating firing pin (no firing pin spring). The safe operation of the rifle relies on the resistance of stripping a round from the mag to slow down the forward momentum of the bolt. If you let the bolt slam forward on a chambered round it's possible that the firing pin could have enough forward momentum to pop the primer.
 
There are reported cases where a round has been fired when it is placed in the chamber and the bolt is allowed to slam shut. The worst case scenario is if the round fires with the bolt unlocked. The firing pins in these rifles are not positively held back before the bolt is locked. In theory, the cam cut in the lower receiver bridge should prevent the firing pin from snapping foreward hard enough to fire a primer, but there are reports of failures. If the cartridge does not seat freely, or has a protruding or particularly sensitive primer the situation is made worse.
I am unaware of how a slamfire could occur if the bolt is closed while under control. If the bolt is closed manually, there is insufficient bolt velocity to cause a slamfire, and it is visually obvious when the bolt rotates to locked position. What problems can occur if the bolt is closed manually?
 
I beleive the potential problem with following the bolt forward is not having a positive lock-up of the bolt lugs to the receiver. They say the potential is there for an out of battery firing.
 
It is easy to see the bolt rotate to lock. If the bolt isn't locked, then the trigger should not be pressed.
 
bolt

the mag is supost to slow the bolt speed down to prevent out of battery fireing. and trust me it does happen this i know for a fact :eek: so do not use this gun with out a mag in place. read your manual. it states this in the manual.
 
kwattro:

Where are you located ? Very likely there are experienced CGNutters with M14's who have seen my video or DVD, and would be eager to help you.

Since this is your first bangstick, very likely that this problem is a minor assembly or disassemly one. Judging by your description, I believe that if you were close to me, we could sort this out very quickly.

Get back to us please!! More information needed.... more symptoms.... so that we can diagnose your situation and save you a shztload of unnecessary grief. Don't suffer in silence.

Barney
 
I'll try to explain as best I can.

I inserted the empty mag in the gun as outlined in the springfield manual. I cycled back the bolt and upon release the bolt hung up on the mag. Specifically the sprung part that pushes the bullets up, sorry I don't know the term. So I gave the mag a tug down, it stayed locked in but did move down just enough for the bolt to now cycle fully by hand.

I loaded the mag with bullets, inserted it, and cycled the bolt. Immediately the bolt jammed the bullet into the edge of the chamber, ruining the tip of the bullet. I removed the damaged bullet, gave the mag an upward slap, cycled the bolt and the bullet properly loaded into the chamber though it didn't feel very smooth in my opinion. I cycled again, the round extracted, and as the bolt went forward again it slid across the top of the next bullet damaging the brass with a full length scratch, and dislodgeing the mag. This process repeats 100% of the time.

I've stripped, clean, lubed and reassembled the gun as outlined in the manuals and online guides here, it was very basic, quick, and I had no troubles whatsoever. I should mention that the gun did this before and after cleaning, there is no change in funtion since from the second I unpacked it.

I'm in Calgary by the way.


Hungry said:
kwattro:

Where are you located ? Very likely there are experienced CGNutters with M14's who have seen my video or DVD, and would be eager to help you.

Since this is your first bangstick, very likely that this problem is a minor assembly or disassemly one. Judging by your description, I believe that if you were close to me, we could sort this out very quickly.

Get back to us please!! More information needed.... more symptoms.... so that we can diagnose your situation and save you a shztload of unnecessary grief. Don't suffer in silence.

Barney
Click to expand...
 
Kwattro said:
I inserted the empty mag in the gun as outlined in the springfield manual. I cycled back the bolt and upon release the bolt hung up on the mag. Specifically the sprung part that pushes the bullets up, sorry I don't know the term.
Click to expand...

This sounds normal to me. The M14 has a bolt-hold-open feature, that causes the bolt to be held open when cycling over an empty magazine. On the left side of the receiver there is a little metal part (the bolt stop). If you slowly draw back the bolt over an empty mag and watch the bolt stop you will see it move once the bolt clears the magazine follower. If you push the bottpm part of the bolt stop in towards the receiver while cycling the bolt with a loaded mag or with no magazine in the rifle, it will lock the bolt back for you.

Kwattro said:
I loaded the mag with bullets, inserted it, and cycled the bolt. Immediately the bolt jammed the bullet into the edge of the chamber, ruining the tip of the bullet. I removed the damaged bullet, gave the mag an upward slap, cycled the bolt and the bullet properly loaded into the chamber though it didn't feel very smooth in my opinion. I cycled again, the round extracted, and as the bolt went forward again it slid across the top of the next bullet damaging the brass with a full length scratch, and dislodgeing the mag. This process repeats 100% of the time.
Click to expand...

This sounds suspiciously like you havn't fully seated the magazine. Lock the bolt back on the rifle and look in the magazine well. Notice the triangular bit that protrudes into the front of the magwell? When you insert a magazine, that triangular bit is supposed to hook into the square hole at the top front of the magazine before you rotate the magazine backwards to lock it into place. If you don't hook it in just right, you will have exactly the problems you describe. No amount of slapping on the bottom of the magazine will fix it, you just have to pull the magazine and insert it again. If you have mis-seated your magazine in this way and you try to seat it by slapping the bottom of the mag, there is a remote chance you might damage your magazine by deforming the steel above this hole

Are you inserting the magazine while the bolt is locked back, or while the bolt is forward?
 
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I know of the bolt stop, however it's definately the mag that's in the way, very easy to see.

I'm fairly certain I'm installing the mag right, it gets rocked in front first to catch the square hole. I'll have to verify that's it's catching there too. But once it's in I can't pull it out with my hand unless I hit the release. As mentioned before it does get forced out when I cycle the bolt.

I think I've tried inserting the mag with the bolt in both positions, never thought to consider that. How should it be done?
 
there should be no difference installing the mag with the bolt open or closed,it'll work either way.have you stripped the rifle down and re-assembled? i'm thinking that your spring guide retaining pin is not in place.it is the end of this guide that locks into the front of the mag.
 
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