Can I use A360 9mm ball CND MK I in Kel-tec?

RobMorin

RobMorin

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Hello all, I have not posted here in quite a few years....

I purchased a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 a couple days ago.

It would seem the price came down a bit from when I wanted to purchase during the covid times.

I had a friend give some 9mm his dad had stored away in the basement in ammo cans.

There are 25 boxes of 64 cartridges of A360 9mm ball CND MK I

I was hoping that these can be used in the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2?


Thanks and have a great day!

Rob
Montreal, Canada
 
9mm Mk I is loaded to a higher pressure than 9mm Luger. It will work but it’s closer to +P ammo. As long as the Sub 2000 is rated for +P you should have no problems.
 
Hey all, SO I called Kel-Tec in FL, and asked, he asked what grain i said 116, from what i researched. He said it was ok, and that if it was +P it would be stamped on the bullet, its not.

The bullet only has a "65", "D.A" and some little circle with to lines through it.
So I guess I am good to go.
I don't want to waste the 1600 rounds i have of this type.

Have a great day!
 
That little circle with the line mean it’s NATO compliant ammo. Usually hotter than commercial ammo.
Kel tech is wrong..there is no +P indicated on military ammo just commercial.
 
+P is a commercial designation. You will not find that marking on military ammo. The ammo could very well be +P. It could be ++++P (not a real designation btw but used to highlight the issue).
 
It is +P and maybe +P+.
Here what they say about it :

‘9mm NATO can be considered an overpressure variant of 9×19mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards.’
 
So when we say hotter or +P , what kind of a difference are we talking about, in terms that are more easily understandable?

And if not indicated on NATO ammo, how does one know if it is or not? :)
Is there more powder, more velocity, there must be some solid specific measurement for this rather than more hot or ++++P ?

I do not want to use this ammo if there is a risk of something going wrong that's for sure.
But I have 1600 rounds of it to through out i guess then if that is the case...

I never asked the Kel-tek guy if i can use +P he just said that from what I told him it was ok to use. SIlly me!
 
To keep it simple, your NATO ammo is probably about 36,500psi. It will be around that more or less and not much more. NATO has very high and clearly established standards for their ammunition so the odds of having random 38,000+ psi ammunition out there is very small. Since the SAAMI limit is 35,000 you can see that the extra pressure is significant but not incredible.

As I said before the numbers between those two are not directly comparable, NATO's testing method is actually one of the reasons why NATO 9mm pressure sit where they do.
 
Janeau said:
It is +P and maybe +P+.
Here what they say about it :

‘9mm NATO can be considered an overpressure variant of 9×19mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards.’
Click to expand...
I don't know about more modern NATO ammo but in past times like WWII because military ammo would be used in a variety of firearms (including full autos) it tended to be loaded pretty hot to make sure the firearms functioned properly.

I learned the hard way a few years ago when I picked up what turned out to be some Com-Bloc 7.62 Tokarev ammo that was made for use in sub-guns. Fortunately I was shooting it in the very beefy CZ 52 pistol so the gun stayed intact but it was a real surprise to see extracted cases fly 30 feet or more out of a handgun.

I'm not sure how well a Kel-Tec would stand up to a steady diet of really hot 9mm ammo.
 
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^No such thing as SMG purposed x25 (old and tired myth proven false through logistics records among other things) The 52 is also not a robust gun despite it's size. Failure tests have shown it's weaker then the TT which is surprisingly strong.
 
What happens to these 1600 rounds if you don't send them down the S2K? Similar street price to a replacement rifle!
If it helps any, I've had no failures with Winchester NATO (124 grain, 1200 FPS). Not an indication of long term wear though.
 
I was reading a bit more and apparently its ok to use these for a couple magazines then switch over to "Normal" 9mm ammo.

SO what are other 9mm firearm users using for ammo?
I was seeing that CCI Blazer seemed popular 115gr $29 for a box of 50
 
RobMorin said:
SO what are other 9mm firearm users using for ammo?
I was seeing that CCI Blazer seemed popular 115gr $29 for a box of 50
Click to expand...

One positive thing about the Blazer is that it goes on sale regularly. Definately avoid paying $29 for 50 (in 2023), expect $23 or less for Brass, $20 for Aluminum. The Blazer Aluminum will not extract reliably from a S2K, I don't recommend it for this PCC. The Blazer Brass works fine but is dirty and unremarkable down range. Imo this is basic range ammo good for when shots fired is more important than bullseyes or thump.

For the S2K Federal American Eagle 9mm FMJ 147 grain 1000 FPS is currently my favorite full price 9mm, and Remington Range Pack 9mm FMJ 115 grain 1145 FPS for discount.
 
I would personally avoid the use of NATO-spec 9mm Ball in a folding, plastic "rifle" held together with screws. That ammo is definitely loaded hotter than commercial 115gr or 124gr ammunition, as it was intended to reliably and forcefully cycle open-bolt SMG's with heavy steel bolts. Think STEN and UZI ammo, as that is precisely what NATO ammo is spec'ed for. The hotter military 9mm ammo (and over-cleaning) is why the Canadian Army fleet of BHP pistols is so clapped out. Most of the well-used pistols are rattly pieces of tired old crap, having been shot literally to pieces with the extra-hot NATO-spec 9mm ammo. My HK MP5 manual explicitly states that a stronger Operating Spring must be used in the MP5 SMG when firing either Israeli "Black-tip" or Canadian military 9mm ammo. If HK goes to the trouble of singling out the Canadian ammo as "hot" enough to warrant a stronger operating spring, you just KNOW that it is going to be bad news in a Kel-Tec.

Play it smart and safe - sell that Canadian 9mm to someone with a sturdier PCC and shoot PMC Brass-cased 9mm ammo that you can routinely purchase on sale.
 
Bartok5 said:
I would personally avoid the use of NATO-spec 9mm Ball in a folding, plastic "rifle" held together with screws. That ammo is definitely loaded hotter than commercial 115gr or 124gr ammunition, as it was intended to reliably and forcefully cycle open-bolt SMG's with heavy steel bolts. Think STEN and UZI ammo, as that is precisely what NATO ammo is spec'ed for. The hotter military 9mm ammo (and over-cleaning) is why the Canadian Army fleet of BHP pistols is so clapped out. Most of the well-used pistols are rattly pieces of tired old crap, having been shot literally to pieces with the extra-hot NATO-spec 9mm ammo. My HK MP5 manual explicitly states that a stronger Operating Spring must be used in the MP5 SMG when firing either Israeli "Black-tip" or Canadian military 9mm ammo. If HK goes to the trouble of singling out the Canadian ammo as "hot" enough to warrant a stronger operating spring, you just KNOW that it is going to be bad news in a Kel-Tec.

Play it smart and safe - sell that Canadian 9mm to someone with a sturdier PCC and shoot PMC Brass-cased 9mm ammo that you can routinely purchase on sale.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good excuse to buy a B&T APC 9 to me :)
 
Bartok5 said:
I would personally avoid the use of NATO-spec 9mm Ball in a folding, plastic "rifle" held together with screws. That ammo is definitely loaded hotter than commercial 115gr or 124gr ammunition, as it was intended to reliably and forcefully cycle open-bolt SMG's with heavy steel bolts. Think STEN and UZI ammo, as that is precisely what NATO ammo is spec'ed for. The hotter military 9mm ammo (and over-cleaning) is why the Canadian Army fleet of BHP pistols is so clapped out. Most of the well-used pistols are rattly pieces of tired old crap, having been shot literally to pieces with the extra-hot NATO-spec 9mm ammo. My HK MP5 manual explicitly states that a stronger Operating Spring must be used in the MP5 SMG when firing either Israeli "Black-tip" or Canadian military 9mm ammo. If HK goes to the trouble of singling out the Canadian ammo as "hot" enough to warrant a stronger operating spring, you just KNOW that it is going to be bad news in a Kel-Tec.

Play it smart and safe - sell that Canadian 9mm to someone with a sturdier PCC and shoot PMC Brass-cased 9mm ammo that you can routinely purchase on sale.
Click to expand...

This!!!
 
Kel-Tec is not a quality brand, I would be inclined to agree that the gun should be babied. I have worn out two 9mm S2K and I had a .40sw model that only lasted 4 rounds before it blew up in my face. Junk...

 
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Ok, so , now I am paranoid. :)

So how much do I sell this ammo for? and where and or to whom?

Suggestions?

I know this is not the best 9mm carbine, but i can't afford much more than the $850 i paid for it. I don't drive a Porche , but my Chevy Silverado work just fine. :)

Have a great day everyone!
 
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