can new brunswick wardens demand gun papers ??

NB.nagantsniper

NB.nagantsniper

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recently ,
my nephew was out hunting here in new brunswick....BIRD season.......


he was stopped by nb dept of natural resources ( rangers) and asked for his hunting license, .....no problem.......

then was asked for the registry papers on his shotgun.

he didnt have them and said so..........after some discussion, the officers told him to go home, and that rcmp or what ever leo for his area would be coming by to visit.

seems FUNNY /WEIRD TO ME.
is it MANDATORY in new brunswick to carry the registry papers ?
or is this more anti gun BS.....

ANY KNOWLEDGE OR COMMENTS MOST WELCOMED.
 
Although you can be fined &/or imprisoned for 'hunting without a hunting license' - there are no specifically stated requests/alerts/warnings within the provincially 'published/printed' game laws for carrying gun registration papers with you/on person while in the field.

However, 'young hunters' do need to carry proof of two years hunting experience on their person while in the field.

It is a grey area, made greyer but the current & ongoing amnesty. The failure for provincial regulations to specify state/spellout the carrying of these papers while in field, at the very least, bodes not well for authorities hoping to impose fines or inflict more serious punishment.
 
Last edited:
horseshoe said:
I believe it is LAW that the cert must be carried with the firearm, however, some provinces have CHOSEN to not enforce it....
Click to expand...

Now is it some provinces, or some LEOs? I'm pretty certain that the cert has to be carried regardless of province, as its federal law. And COs from any province are able to enforce the firearms act.

AND if you don't have the cert, the firearm is generally seized and held for a certain period of time till you are able to prove ownership.

AND AND the popcorn emoticon is going to be very fitting for this thread.
 
Seriously seized?

I have never, ever carried them. Actually, I think I lost them all.

10 000 times a day, they can't check it 10 001?
 
xeon said:
Now is it some provinces, or some LEOs? I'm pretty certain that the cert has to be carried regardless of province, as its federal law. And COs from any province are able to enforce the firearms act.

AND if you don't have the cert, the firearm is generally seized and held for a certain period of time till you are able to prove ownership.

AND AND the popcorn emoticon is going to be very fitting for this thread.
Click to expand...

+1. Section 91 of the CC makes it an offense to possess a gun without a license and a registration cert for that gun.

91. (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), every person commits an offence who possesses a firearm without being the holder of

(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and
(b) a registration certificate for the firearm.
Click to expand...

From here: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-3.html#codese:91

I am continually amazed how many gun owners have no idea that this is law. All the amnesty does is remove the possiblity of facing charges for an unregistered gun. It does not stop a LEO (which a CO certainly is) from seizing the firearm and holding it until a registration cert is produced.

•Individuals to whom the amnesty applies will not incur criminal liability for possessing a non-restricted firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate. However, they are still in unauthorized possession of the firearm and Police have the authority to seize the firearm at their discretion.
Click to expand...

From here: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/police/20100319-pol78-eng.htm

Mark
 
riden said:
Seriously seized?

I have never, ever carried them. Actually, I think I lost them all.

10 000 times a day, they can't check it 10 001?
Click to expand...

Well if you don't have proof of ownership of a firearm, and especially if its not in your name they can take it.
 
Oh there we go, quoted and everything.

They dont give you those pieces of paper for no reason. Actually, on the above part of the paper you're suppose to cut out, it says it must be carried with the firearm at all times does it not?
 
xeon said:
They dont give you those pieces of paper for no reason. Actually, on the above part of the paper you're suppose to cut out, it says it must be carried with the firearm at all times does it not?
Click to expand...

The question is really 'who has the legal right to ask you to produce it on demand?' RCMP, municipal police, the provincial game warden, the mayor, butcher/baker/candlestick maker ..... who/when/where?
 
xeon said:
Now is it some provinces, or some LEOs? I'm pretty certain that the cert has to be carried regardless of province, as its federal law. And COs from any province are able to enforce the firearms act.

AND if you don't have the cert, the firearm is generally seized and held for a certain period of time till you are able to prove ownership.

AND AND the popcorn emoticon is going to be very fitting for this thread.
Click to expand...

In Saskatchewan, the provincial government has made it clear on several occasions that they WILL NOT enforce the long gun registry.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/10/03/15566516.html?cid=rssnewscanada


I believe Manitoba has said such as well, I just can't seem to find anything to document it...
 
PeakXV said:
The question is really 'who has the legal right to ask you to produce it on demand?' RCMP, municipal police, the provincial game warden, the mayor, butcher/baker/candlestick maker ..... who/when/where?
Click to expand...

Candlestick makers have the authority to enforce the Firearms Act on whoever, whenever, or wherever they like.

Butchers can not.
 
So right now as it stands - it's a federal law enforcement tool, currently under an amnesty of uncertain dimensions (& chain lengths), that may or may not be enforced by provincial authorities - depending upon the jurisdiction that you reside (or the colour of your great uncle's dickie tie)? :runaway:
 
xeon said:
Oh there we go, quoted and everything.

They dont give you those pieces of paper for no reason. Actually, on the above part of the paper you're suppose to cut out, it says it must be carried with the firearm at all times does it not?
Click to expand...

Well, I guess that would explain why they make them from such a high cost, durable material as $.02/sheet stationary paper!
 
NB.nagantsniper said:
recently ,
my nephew was out hunting here in new brunswick....BIRD season.......


he was stopped by nb dept of natural resources ( rangers) and asked for his hunting license, .....no problem.......

then was asked for the registry papers on his shotgun.

he didnt have them and said so..........after some discussion, the officers told him to go home, and that rcmp or what ever leo for his area would be coming by to visit.

seems FUNNY /WEIRD TO ME.
is it MANDATORY in new brunswick to carry the registry papers ?
or is this more anti gun BS.....

ANY KNOWLEDGE OR COMMENTS MOST WELCOMED.
Click to expand...

Provincial CO's have no jurisdiction. Why do you think they told him to go home and the RCMP would be by?
 
PeakXV said:
So right now as it stands - it's a federal law enforcement tool, currently under an amnesty of uncertain dimensions (& chain lengths), that may or may not be enforced by provincial authorities - depending upon the jurisdiction that you reside (or the colour of your great uncle's dickie tie)? :runaway:
Click to expand...

That would be correct, yes.

I have been told that the Alberta Solicitor General has instructed the RCMP to not worry about the paper offences related to C-68. I cannot confirm that with a reliable source, however. My limited experiences with our CO's have been that the CO's are far more concerned that you have your license(s) and tags in order and that your gun is unloaded if you are in your vehicle than they are about you having a registration cert with you.

Regardless, I still carry a copy of the cert for the gun I am carrying that day, because I don't want to have a hunting day ruined by running into a pendantic prick of a LEO who feels like throwing his weight around that day. YMMV.

Mark
 
Yes, Virginia, as peace officers, they can.

See 117.03

A peace officer who finds
(a) a person in possession of a firearm who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and a registration certificate for the firearm, or
(b) a person in possession of a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess it,
may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part, or the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of another person who may lawfully possess it.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-3.html#codese:117_03


Criminal Code (R.S., 1985, c. C-46)
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/index.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/FullText.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Statute/C/C-46.pdf

Criminal Code (R.S., 1985, c. C-46)

INTERPRETATION​

“peace officer”
« agent de la paix »

“peace officer” includes
(a) a mayor, warden, reeve, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff’s officer and justice of the peace,
(b) a member of the Correctional Service of Canada who is designated as a peace officer pursuant to Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, and a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard and any other officer or permanent employee of a prison other than a penitentiary as defined in Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act,
(c) a police officer, police constable, bailiff, constable, or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace or for the service or execution of civil process,
(d) an officer within the meaning of the Customs Act, the Excise Act or the Excise Act, 2001, or a person having the powers of such an officer, when performing any duty in the administration of any of those Acts,
(d.1) an officer authorized under subsection 138(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act,
(e) a person designated as a fishery guardian under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act and a person designated as a fishery officer under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act or the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act,
(f) the pilot in command of an aircraft

(i) registered in Canada under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act, or

(ii) leased without crew and operated by a person who is qualified under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act to be registered as owner of an aircraft registered in Canada under those regulations,

while the aircraft is in flight, and
(g) officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces who are

(i) appointed for the purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act, or

(ii) employed on duties that the Governor in Council, in regulations made under the National Defence Act for the purposes of this paragraph, has prescribed to be of such a kind as to necessitate that the officers and non-commissioned members performing them have the powers of peace officers;

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-1.html#codese:2-df:CODEAGENTDELAPAIX-m1
Click to expand...

Criminal Code (R.S., 1985, c. C-46)

PART III
FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
​

Search and Seizure​

Search and seizure without warrant where offence committed
117.02 (1) Where a peace officer believes on reasonable grounds
(a) that a weapon, an imitation firearm, a prohibited device, any ammunition, any prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance was used in the commission of an offence, or
(b) that an offence is being committed, or has been committed, under any provision of this Act that involves, or the subject-matter of which is, a firearm, an imitation firearm, a cross-bow, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance,
and evidence of the offence is likely to be found on a person, in a vehicle or in any place or premises other than a dwelling-house, the peace officer may, where the conditions for obtaining a warrant exist but, by reason of exigent circumstances, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant, search, without warrant, the person, vehicle, place or premises, and seize any thing by means of or in relation to which that peace officer believes on reasonable grounds the offence is being committed or has been committed.

Disposition of seized things

(2) Any thing seized pursuant to subsection (1) shall be dealt with in accordance with sections 490 and 491.

1995, c. 39, s. 139.

Seizure on failure to produce authorization
117.03 (1) Notwithstanding section 117.02, a peace officer who finds
(a) a person in possession of a firearm who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and a registration certificate for the firearm, or
(b) a person in possession of a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess it,
may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part, or the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of another person who may lawfully possess it.

Return of seized thing on production of authorization

(2) Where a person from whom any thing is seized pursuant to subsection (1) claims the thing within fourteen days after the seizure and produces for inspection by the peace officer by whom it was seized, or any other peace officer having custody of it,
(a) an authorization or a licence under which the person is lawfully entitled to possess it, and
(b) in the case of a firearm, a registration certificate for the firearm,
the thing shall forthwith be returned to that person.

Forfeiture of seized thing

(3) Where any thing seized pursuant to subsection (1) is not claimed and returned as and when provided by subsection (2), a peace officer shall forthwith take the thing before a provincial court judge, who may, after affording the person from whom it was seized or its owner, if known, an opportunity to establish that the person is lawfully entitled to possess it, declare it to be forfeited to Her Majesty, to be disposed of or otherwise dealt with as the Attorney General directs.

1995, c. 39, s. 139.

Application for warrant to search and seize
117.04 (1) Where, pursuant to an application made by a peace officer with respect to any person, a justice is satisfied by information on oath that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person possesses a weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance in a building, receptacle or place and that it is not desirable in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess the weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or explosive substance, the justice may issue a warrant authorizing a peace officer to search the building, receptacle or place and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.

Search and seizure without warrant

(2) Where, with respect to any person, a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person or any other person, for the person to possess any weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or explosive substance, the peace officer may, where the grounds for obtaining a warrant under subsection (1) exist but, by reason of a possible danger to the safety of that person or any other person, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant, search for and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.

Return to justice

(3) A peace officer who executes a warrant referred to in subsection (1) or who conducts a search without a warrant under subsection (2) shall forthwith make a return to the justice who issued the warrant or, if no warrant was issued, to a justice who might otherwise have issued a warrant, showing
(a) in the case of an execution of a warrant, the things or documents, if any, seized and the date of execution of the warrant; and
(b) in the case of a search conducted without a warrant, the grounds on which it was concluded that the peace officer was entitled to conduct the search, and the things or documents, if any, seized.

Authorizations, etc., revoked

(4) Where a peace officer who seizes any thing under subsection (1) or (2) is unable at the time of the seizure to seize an authorization or a licence under which the person from whom the thing was seized may possess the thing and, in the case of a seized firearm, a registration certificate for the firearm, every authorization, licence and registration certificate held by the person is, as at the time of the seizure, revoked.

1995, c. 39, s. 139; 2004, c. 12, s. 3.

Application for disposition
117.05 (1) Where any thing or document has been seized under subsection 117.04(1) or (2), the justice who issued the warrant authorizing the seizure or, if no warrant was issued, a justice who might otherwise have issued a warrant, shall, on application for an order for the disposition of the thing or document so seized made by a peace officer within thirty days after the date of execution of the warrant or of the seizure without a warrant, as the case may be, fix a date for the hearing of the application and direct that notice of the hearing be given to such persons or in such manner as the justice may specify.

Ex parte hearing

(2) A justice may proceed ex parte to hear and determine an application made under subsection (1) in the absence of the person from whom the thing or document was seized in the same circumstances as those in which a summary conviction court may, under Part XXVII, proceed with a trial in the absence of the defendant.

Hearing of application

(3) At the hearing of an application made under subsection (1), the justice shall hear all relevant evidence, including evidence respecting the value of the thing in respect of which the application was made.

Forfeiture and prohibition order on finding

(4) Where, following the hearing of an application made under subsection (1), the justice finds that it is not desirable in the interests of the safety of the person from whom the thing was seized or of any other person that the person should possess any weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition and explosive substance, or any such thing, the justice shall
(a) order that any thing seized be forfeited to Her Majesty or be otherwise disposed of; and
(b) where the justice is satisfied that the circumstances warrant such an action, order that the possession by that person of any weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition and explosive substance, or of any such thing, be prohibited during any period, not exceeding five years, that is specified in the order, beginning on the making of the order.

Reasons

(5) Where a justice does not make an order under subsection (4), or where a justice does make such an order but does not prohibit the possession of all of the things referred to in that subsection, the justice shall include in the record a statement of the justice’s reasons.

Application of ss. 113 to 117

(6) Sections 113 to 117 apply in respect of every order made under subsection (4).

Appeal by person

(7) Where a justice makes an order under subsection (4) in respect of a person, or in respect of any thing that was seized from a person, the person may appeal to the superior court against the order.

Appeal by Attorney General

(8) Where a justice does not make a finding as described in subsection (4) following the hearing of an application under subsection (1), or makes the finding but does not make an order to the effect described in paragraph (4)(b), the Attorney General may appeal to the superior court against the failure to make the finding or to make an order to the effect so described.

Application of Part XXVII to appeals

(9) The provisions of Part XXVII, except sections 785 to 812, 816 to 819 and 829 to 838, apply in respect of an appeal made under subsection (7) or (8) with such modifications as the circumstances require and as if each reference in that Part to the appeal court were a reference to the superior court.

1995, c. 39, s. 139.

Where no finding or application
117.06 (1) Any thing or document seized pursuant to subsection 117.04(1) or (2) shall be returned to the person from whom it was seized if
(a) no application is made under subsection 117.05(1) within thirty days after the date of execution of the warrant or of the seizure without a warrant, as the case may be; or
(b) an application is made under subsection 117.05(1) within the period referred to in paragraph (a), and the justice does not make a finding as described in subsection 117.05(4).

Restoration of authorizations

(2) Where, pursuant to subsection (1), any thing is returned to the person from whom it was seized and an authorization, a licence or a registration certificate, as the case may be, is revoked pursuant to subsection 117.04(4), the justice referred to in paragraph (1)(b) may order that the revocation be reversed and that the authorization, licence or registration certificate be restored.

1995, c. 39, s. 139.


http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-3.html#codese:117_03
Click to expand...
 
Wendell said:
See 117.03

A peace officer who finds
(a) a person in possession of a firearm who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and a registration certificate for the firearm, or
(b) a person in possession of a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess it,
may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part, or the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of another person who may lawfully possess it.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-3.html#codese:117_03


Criminal Code (R.S., 1985, c. C-46)
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/index.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/FullText.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Statute/C/C-46.pdf
Click to expand...

No, there is no where in that act that includes a Conservation officer. A officer under the Fisheries act is a Federal Fisheries officer.
 
don,
If they are doing it, its news to me, I was stopped twice this spring up your way and both times we had a little chat, I showed my hunting license and they went on their way. on one of the occasions they asked me to show them the gun was not loaded (in my truck).

dont suppose it was a short bald guy and a tall lanky mouthpeice was it?
 
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