I understand that it's a "happy medium" between the 9mm and the .45ACP. Especially south of the border where you can carry and magazine capacity is relevant. To me, as someone who doesn't shoot 40S&W, it seems kind of like it suffers from the drawbacks of both the .45 and the 9. Up here where our handguns are largely just range guns, what's the appeal?
Can someone explain 40 S&W to me?
- Thread starter rkm456
- Start date
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
40 is for girls
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
that starts a conversation
FBI wanted more gun, 9 is a sport caliber and 10mm was to harsh, so they cam up with 10mm short which is 40, middle ground.
FBI wanted more gun, 9 is a sport caliber and 10mm was to harsh, so they cam up with 10mm short which is 40, middle ground.
- Location
- Lower Mainland
good answer
What do you consider to be the drawbacks of the .45 and the 9mm. ?
Still alive
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- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
We seem to be following the US trends. They are getting rid of their .40s and we seem to see a lot of .40 G22, FN, S&W and HKs up for sale here. Also seems, generally, that .40 chambered guns sell for less here than their 9mm counterpart. Seems to indicate the demand is dwindling.
With improvements in bullet design, it seems the .40 is a moot caliber over the 9mm. The 9mm is cheaper, has less recoil and you can carry 2 more rounds in a gun the same size. ( In the US) What's not to like?
As a defensive cartridge, the advantage the .40 has over the 10mm is a shorter reach on the grip ( although fatter in girth), less wear on the gun, less recoil, a few more rounds, more available factory loadings, cheaper and less penetration. Even the factory 10mm now is pretty wimpy though compared to the original from the late 80s.
With improvements in bullet design, it seems the .40 is a moot caliber over the 9mm. The 9mm is cheaper, has less recoil and you can carry 2 more rounds in a gun the same size. ( In the US) What's not to like?
As a defensive cartridge, the advantage the .40 has over the 10mm is a shorter reach on the grip ( although fatter in girth), less wear on the gun, less recoil, a few more rounds, more available factory loadings, cheaper and less penetration. Even the factory 10mm now is pretty wimpy though compared to the original from the late 80s.
.40.....love it...shoot more .40 than any other caliber...guess that makes me a girl....and as was already pointed out...when the ammo stream runs dry...I'm still happily shooting .40..you guys with your 10mm carry on enjoying your exotic calibers...lol
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Like Import says! He's a girl!!! LOL!
Sorry buddy ! Couldn't resist!
I like shooting .40 also. It's just the cost factor for me. Also in IDPA, any small advantage is good. Why handicap yourself when a 9mm will do? BUT if you shoot .40 well, 9mm will be no problem.
The "sense" of any particular caliber or firearm in the restricted class is entirely in the eye of the beholder in Canada.
With restricted firearm use limited to the range issues of performance/stopping power/terminal ballistics etc become irrelevant.
Issues like power factor and other administrative issues arise if you are competing in organized competition.
Otherwise the issue comes down to personal preference, expectations, historical, nostalgia, recoil sensitivity....and the biggies of COST and AVAILABILITY.
When all we are doing is punching paper within a increasingly tight sandbox... and since they made shooting steel such a big deal to no go lately...how big a hole doesn't really matter....and there is no feedback from paper/cardboard.
40 vs 9 vs 45 vs 10mm vs 357 vs 454 Casull.....what brings a smile to your face is all that matters.....after all it is purely the pursuit of that....we aren't hunting/defending/offending/etc in Canada with our restricted weapons.
Some CAS shooters shoot calibers that are nostalgic and authentic to the period...they may be ballistically inferior, expensive and difficult to procure...but are cool as hell and make them smile.
Other CAS shooters shoot anemic 38spl rds as they can go fast and score high numbers in competition...which makes them smile.
Same goes for IDPA and or IPSC or 3 gun shooters.....some shoot guns/ammo that afford the best scores possible while others wield what they think is cool or fun...while others wield what they feel is fair and appropriate.
Now IF/WHEN the govt reforms the laws and or shtf deteriorates to the point where the risk/benefit of respecting the law to carry/deploy our weapons in defensive scenarios happens THEN ammo/calibre/weapon type becomes as valid as it is in parts of the world where it currently matters. Then the ammo/cartridge/weapon type that you HAVE becomes the 1st priority.....followed closely by the same that you can resupply/scrounge/make/buy becomes king.
Back to 40 vs 9. 40 was born out of dissatisfaction with the currently available ammo of the time in 9mm. 45 wasn't an option as they were also endeavouring to put as many rds as poss in the defensive pistol.
They started with 10mm which they felt was too much recoil/blast as well as may be too hard on the pistol lowering service life unacceptably.
They shortened up the 10mm to what became the 40sw and called her a day.
The end result was more horsepower than the 9 with what was felt was acceptable recoil/blast and pistol service life.
As ammo technology/design evolved the 9mm became increasingly considered effective in its role as a defensive cartridge against human offenders...and in fact it has statistically/ballistically narrowed the gap between 9/40 to the point of near negligent.
So...IF one is carrying a pistol loaded with current modern defensive ammo for defensive use against a typical unarmoured human attacker ....9 vs 40 vs 45 are so close in their terminal effectiveness as to not matter.
As such it next boils down to the shootability of the rd...recoil/blast/muzzle climb/practical accuracy that should be the deciding factor.
Also of note is that NONE of the common pistol rds provide reliable ONE shot stopping performance...they ALL require multiple hits to be effective more often than not.....which brings the issue of practical accuracy/shootability and in some cases capacity front and centre.
There... one mans take...and a Canadian man's at that.
PS Current zombie doctrine suggests that they can be easily...and in fact only mitigated by a head shot....and you will likely have to CARRY all your crap around on foot.....22lr is lookin' pretty damn good to this guy
With restricted firearm use limited to the range issues of performance/stopping power/terminal ballistics etc become irrelevant.
Issues like power factor and other administrative issues arise if you are competing in organized competition.
Otherwise the issue comes down to personal preference, expectations, historical, nostalgia, recoil sensitivity....and the biggies of COST and AVAILABILITY.
When all we are doing is punching paper within a increasingly tight sandbox... and since they made shooting steel such a big deal to no go lately...how big a hole doesn't really matter....and there is no feedback from paper/cardboard.
40 vs 9 vs 45 vs 10mm vs 357 vs 454 Casull.....what brings a smile to your face is all that matters.....after all it is purely the pursuit of that....we aren't hunting/defending/offending/etc in Canada with our restricted weapons.
Some CAS shooters shoot calibers that are nostalgic and authentic to the period...they may be ballistically inferior, expensive and difficult to procure...but are cool as hell and make them smile.
Other CAS shooters shoot anemic 38spl rds as they can go fast and score high numbers in competition...which makes them smile.
Same goes for IDPA and or IPSC or 3 gun shooters.....some shoot guns/ammo that afford the best scores possible while others wield what they think is cool or fun...while others wield what they feel is fair and appropriate.
Now IF/WHEN the govt reforms the laws and or shtf deteriorates to the point where the risk/benefit of respecting the law to carry/deploy our weapons in defensive scenarios happens THEN ammo/calibre/weapon type becomes as valid as it is in parts of the world where it currently matters. Then the ammo/cartridge/weapon type that you HAVE becomes the 1st priority.....followed closely by the same that you can resupply/scrounge/make/buy becomes king.
Back to 40 vs 9. 40 was born out of dissatisfaction with the currently available ammo of the time in 9mm. 45 wasn't an option as they were also endeavouring to put as many rds as poss in the defensive pistol.
They started with 10mm which they felt was too much recoil/blast as well as may be too hard on the pistol lowering service life unacceptably.
They shortened up the 10mm to what became the 40sw and called her a day.
The end result was more horsepower than the 9 with what was felt was acceptable recoil/blast and pistol service life.
As ammo technology/design evolved the 9mm became increasingly considered effective in its role as a defensive cartridge against human offenders...and in fact it has statistically/ballistically narrowed the gap between 9/40 to the point of near negligent.
So...IF one is carrying a pistol loaded with current modern defensive ammo for defensive use against a typical unarmoured human attacker ....9 vs 40 vs 45 are so close in their terminal effectiveness as to not matter.
As such it next boils down to the shootability of the rd...recoil/blast/muzzle climb/practical accuracy that should be the deciding factor.
Also of note is that NONE of the common pistol rds provide reliable ONE shot stopping performance...they ALL require multiple hits to be effective more often than not.....which brings the issue of practical accuracy/shootability and in some cases capacity front and centre.
There... one mans take...and a Canadian man's at that.
PS Current zombie doctrine suggests that they can be easily...and in fact only mitigated by a head shot....and you will likely have to CARRY all your crap around on foot.....22lr is lookin' pretty damn good to this guy
40 vs 9
Obviously this doesn't affect those Canadian's currently entitled to legally carry/deploy firearms in the performance of their duty.
Although they also suffer the decisions made by politicians/accountants and other masters as to what is made available to them.....not their personal decisions.
Obviously this doesn't affect those Canadian's currently entitled to legally carry/deploy firearms in the performance of their duty.
Although they also suffer the decisions made by politicians/accountants and other masters as to what is made available to them.....not their personal decisions.
