Can this muzzleloader be saved?

T

TonyMo

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Greetings,
First of all, I have never owned a muzzleloader/blackpowder gun and so know nothing about them.

A friend gave me this Thompson Hawken percussion muzzleloader. He received it from someone else who had purchased it new just for a wall hanger. My friend heard the then original owner shot it once and then had the muzzle welded closed to make it "safe." f:P::bangHead:
Anyway my friend got it for me thinking I would like it to hang on the wall of my cabin/cottage.

As you can see the muzzle end has been filled in and it also looks like the flash hole has also been covered....I guess he was really thinking of the children :kickInTheNuts:

I was thinking of drilling into the weld in the muzzle just to see how deep it goes.
Yes, it also needs some cleaning up.

But what do you guys think? Can it be saved and made into a useable gun? Is it worth saving or should I just hang it on the wall?

Thanks for the help.







 
Aries- said:
Not worth it. The bbl will be toast. And the breech plug. Would be easier to buy a new one.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

The breech plug, unless they welded it to the barrel, should unscrew from the back end of the barrel and can be replaced with a replacement either from TC, or from a source like Track of the Wolf.
While it may be possible to salvage the breech plug as-is, it'd be a bunch of work, maybe for no benefit.

Unscrewing the breech plug will give you access to the barrel too, and will allow you to see how much weld was plugged in to the muzzle end. A strong light and a rod, and you can visually inspect and check the distance to the obstruction.

When you know the distance, you can figure out whether it's worthwhile to cut off the barrel and ramrod to shorten it, or if a replacement barrel is the only option.
Visually inspecting will tell you if it is packed full of rust, weld, or looks useable.

Then you can make your decisions.

Cheers
Trev
 
I agree with Trev. A fresh plug, cut and recrown could likely get you back in business. But as mentioned, pull the plug and do some measuring and scrubbing to see what the bore is like before ordering anything.
 
It's going to be nip and tuck on the breech plug I suspect. I've never held a TC Hawken but it LOOKS from the pictures like the touch hole/nipple block is a separate piece from the barrel and plug. If the nipple mount block is a slip on and if the weld went in far enough then then it could have turned the block and plug into one piece. But the barrel should still be able to screw off the threaded stub regardless. So as Trev suggests you can then measure how deep into the bore the weld went and if the plug and nipple mount block is salvageable.

If you cut and re-crown the barrel be sure to cut it back about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch behind the rearmost point of the welding. Welding puts a lot of stress into the metal when done like this and it's likely that the first 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch has shrunk a little. If so then it would be best to remove that part and get back to where the bore is accurate and parallel.

If it begins to look like it'll wind up being less than 20 to 24 inches long I think I'd give up and keep it as a wall hanger. There's something inherently "wrong" about a short barrel Tacticool muzzle loader.... :D
 
I don't know what the "breech plug" is....
Well, I got the barrel off (I had to Google how to do that) and it looks like more bad news. I don't know what the bottom of the barrel is suppose to look like but I appears as though two holes have been created and/or filled in.

So, can I get a new barrel for it? Or just clean it up a little and hang it on the wall?

 
Looks like they have welded the breech plug to the bbl then another hole in the bbl. You would need a new breechplug and bbl.
 
My guess is that a rod has been placed in the barrel and welded at the breach end through a drilled hole and at the muzzle as shown. If you wanted to save the barrel, you would have to cut the barrel off behind the weld and in front of the weld at the breach end. Then replace the breach plug and obviously thread and fit the barrel at the breach end. Also recut the front sight mortice and move the tenon for the barrel key forward to accommodate the shortened breach end.
Unless you are ave to do those things yourself, you would be farther ahead to buy a replacement barrel with the breach plug installed. The cost of having a gunsmith or machinist do that for you would considerably exceed the cost of a new barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
Had a look at w ww.trackofthewolf.com. Their inventory of Green Mountain drop in replacement barrels for TC rifles is low. They have a 32", .40, complete with sights, ramrod, etc for $219.95. It is 15/16" across the flats. Is yours that size?
 
Well credit, of a sort, to the guy for being thorough, to your detriment.

The breech plug is the back end of he barrel, and is threaded in to the barrel proper.

If you look closely, you should be able to see a join line, right where the weld is on the underside.

Ouch!

Salvageable, maybe, with a whole bunch of extra work, but a replacement barrel is a better bet if you cannot do the work yourself. Price one out from TC, and decide if it suits you to pay, or just use it as a decorator piece.

The remnants of the barrel can go to someone that is willing to use it to salvage a section or sections for a BP pistol, as was asked for in the EE a short while back.

Cheers
Trev
 
Those show up at gun shows for around $300 in VG to EXC condition, on a regular basis.

It can be rebarreled and have a new breech plug installed but by the time you get it into Canada, it will cost more than a decent, used replacement. Tiriaq is right, if you only have to replace the barrel. That one needs the barrel and breech plug. If you bought new parts to put it back together in shootable condition, the sights would have to be installed as well, from the original barrel. If, you can do the work yourself, you might break even. You may want to try shooting black powder first, before you decide to fix this rifle or get another.

Black powder shooting, especially muzzle loading, isn't for everyone. Especially the clean up after.
 
The Green Mountain drop in unit is complete. Drop it in and the job is finished. Going to be a $300 solution. Don't know how much is tied up in it. If the dewat is cheap enough, it would be worth repairing.
 
They have a 32", .40, complete with sights, ramrod, etc for $219.95. It is 15/16" across the flats. Is yours that size?
Click to expand...

I don't know what size "across the flats" it is other than it's a 50cal. I'm not at home right now to measure the length.
What size should I look for? Is 15/16" a standard size? I think I would like a 50cal that I could use for deer hunting someday. I believe that means a different twist rate to shoot conicals, sabots and round ball....I need to do a little more research

Don't know how much is tied up in it
Click to expand...
.
I have nothing $ tied up in this. It was just given to me.

I think for now I will just hang it on the wall as decoration. I will keep my eyes open for a barrel. I will also try and clean up the stock and metal parts.
In searching the internet it looks to me as though the Thompson Center Hawken's are discountinued/hard to find.

Thank you for all your suggestions and help!
 
Likely hung it on the wall cocked as well so the spring may be weak too! Genius knows no bounds.Couldn't have bought a replica.If it's a haken it will be 15/16" Renegade 's are 1" across the flats.
 
Given that the gun was free, it would be less expensive to buy a replacement drop-in barrel from TOTW or some other source (Green Mountain directly) than mess with a gunsmith to try to save the current barrel. You might be best served to first advertise for an original barrel that could be found here on CGN in the Eqip. Exchange Forum.
 
TonyMo said:
I don't know what size "across the flats" it is other than it's a 50cal.
I think for now I will just hang it on the wall as decoration. I will keep my eyes open for a barrel. I will also try and clean up the stock and metal parts.
In searching the internet it looks to me as though the Thompson Center Hawken's are discountinued/hard to find.!
Click to expand...

distance across the flats is the outside width of the barrel and is important to you because you want a replacement barrel which fits the your stock and lock. Tiriaq mentioned a Green Mountain barrel; just because your gun is a TC does not mean that you can only use a TC barrel; any percussion barrel that fits the space can be used. Your only concern then would be that the tenon that the barrel key goes through, should be in the right place relative to your stock. They can be made or bought and they can be installed or moved fairly easily. On further thought, the barrel you currently have, already has the piece and it can be transferred to a replacement barrel if necessary

cheers mooncoon
 
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