Can you identify these rifles?

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watchman

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Here are some pictures of my wife's Grandpa who was an American when he went back to China (1938)to help fight the Japanese. Can anyone identify these rifles? And, can anyone tell me why they would be stacked leaning against each other like that in a long row?

Grandpas199.jpg

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Grandpas145.jpg

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Grandpas206.jpg

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Thanks.

Mike
 
Possibly 100% correct, they were copying everything way back then. They would have needed something to copy so without seeing it who knows for sure but its a safe bet that you are right JP!!!
 
Ditto, Commission Mausers; as for why they're "stacked" like that (that's the term they use), it's because they're doing military training, and the military likes things that look neat, regardless of whether or not they make any sense.
 
As Claven would say no such thing as a Commission Mauser, German Model 1888 and Chinese Hanyang rifles are actually Mannlichers based designs.
 
Note that the rifles' barrels do not have the tubular jacket of the '88 Commision rifle. Would this not pretty much guarantee that they are Hanyang rifles?
 
it's because they're doing military training, and the military likes things that look neat, regardless of whether or not they make any sense.
Click to expand...

You think it makes more sense to lay rifles all over the ground? Makes pretty good sense to me and I am a non militaristic slob.
 
stacked

Thanks for all of the replies, stacked probably wasn't the best word. That does make sense that making a "tee pee" (is that better than stacked?) would be better than laying them on the ground.

JP, I noticed your picture has a "tee pee" of rifles also. Is that the purpose, to keep them off the ground and be neat and tidy?

Mike
 
Yup.

And FWIW we don't do that anymore - rifles are usually lined up on top of your rucksack in two lines on either side of your tent.
 
To stack Arms (US) or pile Arms (Brit) is an old military practice. Basically keeps the weapons out of the dirt and at hand when the unit forms up, each sections line up in front of their stack and front man hand weapons back to each man in the section. In few seconds, unit is re-armed and ready to march off to battle. As a re-enactor I know it works from actual experience. With the death of Napoleonic tactics after WW1, the practice died off gradually and by the end of WW2 was gone.
 
stacked Arms

Would there be any significance to the poses he is doing in front of the stacked Arms?

Thanks.

Mike
 
SDC said:
Ditto, Commission Mausers; as for why they're "stacked" like that (that's the term they use), it's because they're doing military training, and the military likes things that look neat, regardless of whether or not they make any sense.
Click to expand...
The rifles are Piled in British terms something that effectively ended when individual zeroing became improtant. The swivle uppermost is called the piling swivel. Ground Arms as a drill movement was only for parades where there was requirement for troops to stand at ease for long periods such as speeches. Traditionally Rifle regiments and light infantry do not ground arms as it is considered the wrong thing to do!
 
JP said:
As Claven would say no such thing as a Commission Mauser, German Model 1888 and Chinese Hanyang rifles are actually Mannlichers based designs.
Click to expand...

Lol... you know me too well it seems ;)

1888 Commision Rifles are more Mannlicher than Mauser, true.

Actually, the Chinese Hanyang looks more like a Turk 1888/38 than a German 1888 Commision as there is no barrel jacket :)
 
Many militaryrifles had " stacking or piling " swivels near the muzzle, usually attached to the upper barrel band ( or nosecap ) for the purpose of " stacking arms or piling which kept the rifles from laying about on the ground. There is an actual order in whcih each rifle would be stacked so that when the soldiers went back to their original formation and were given the command they would unstack or unpile arms. When I was in the cadet corps back inthe late 1950s the command was, " Stack Arms! " at which time each three designated men in the squad ( usually nine men ) would proceed to " stack" their rifles by inter;locking the stacking or piling swivels. Upon return to the neat rows of stacked rifles and everyone back in their original formation the command " Take Arms! " was given and each set of three men would retrieve their rifles in a prescribed anddrilled fashion. We did this exercise regularly on the parade ground and at summer camp while on field maneuvers and in camp stacking arms was a regularly occuring event. We rarely " slept on our arms " except when anticipating a night attack as part of the field exercises. If I am not mistaken the term stack seems to have been used more in the US while "piling " seem to be more popular in England and Her commonwealth. Hope his is useful. Joe
 
As an addendum when I was on summer field maneuvers and arms were stacked while we were off on some other drill, class or even taking a rest or eating a sentry was always posted to guard the stacked arms. Sometimes this sentry was designated to guard the stacked arms, tents and property of a whole company, sometimes a squad. In my younger cadet days a company numbered 60 cadets, 30 cadets in a squad, 3 files of nine cadets each. Each squad was commanded by a 1st. sergeant with often a puffed up corporal to follow him around. Being in the cadet corps was a great advantage to me when I went into federal military service and I remember most of my experiences with a great deal of fondness ( except for inspections. ) Joe
 
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