Can you post the pictures of the bore in excellent condition on Mosin Nagant rifle?

[Nestor]

Please. I'm fairly new to surplus market and description of the bore's condition is usually "excellent" which can be confusing to the people with less experience. I'm aware about the bullet test performed on the muzzle, but has little idea about how a very nice bore on the Mosins should look like. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[gewehr76]

If its shiny and has continuous well defined lands and grooves. Its excellent. If there's pitting in the grooves and none on lands, should be good.
If pitting on lands and grooves then its poor. Shinier the bore the better it is.
Unfortunately there is no definite answer. It comes from experience of looking at various bores and coming up with guesstimate.
I would rate your mosin's bore as excellent.

 

[Nestor]

Thank you. It's just that I'm curious and considering buying another one. I've seen some examples with VERY strong rifling, but also traces of the rust in the grooves and chamber, some ok rifling and frosting, but no rust. Some sellers describing the bore as "like new". You know...it's quite confusing what one should look for. Anyway...my first one is slowly getting to where I want it to be. About one more week and wood should be ready. Bit more cleaning of the metal parts and it's going to be good to go.

 

[sail32]

Sharp, even and distinct rifling at the muzzle is preferred !

This might help;

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinBarrel.htm

https://www.google.ca/search?q=mosi...qi6q7KAhUBVWMKHa9bDwAQsAQIGw&biw=1920&bih=971

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSpec.htm

 

[bp2626]

To add the discussion on bore quality, how the shiny the bore is usually has little to do with precision on a milsurp. How worn out the rifling, muzzle and crown are is usually the determining factor in poor precision. Loose stock fit is also a major one.

 

[Riflechair]

 

[Nestor]

Thanks!

 

[bigedp51]

Below a noisy maggot barrel that Ivan forgot to clean during all of WWII.

Below a highly magnified new Savage buttoned rifle barrel. (comes free with speed bumps)

Same Savage barrel before and after fire lapping

Below a custom hand lapped barrel

And the best way to clean a frosted milsurp barrel, is one shot of foam bore cleaner and let the rifle sit over night, then dry, oil and put away.
Less is more, spare the rod and spoil the bore.

With older eyes it is very hard to judge a good barrel and on a milsurp a barrel can be shinny and hard to see the frosted and pitted bores. And these type barrels will fill with copper the first time you pull the trigger. I added the new Savage button rifled barrels because they can pick up more copper than a milsurp barrel and still look shinny. Bottom line it takes very young eyes or a good bore scope to really tell the condition of the bore. And I have had barrels that looked like sewer pipes that shot very well.

 

[Robert Nicholson]

Amazing bore scope photos! Learned alot from that! One thing though.....noisy maggot? I take it you are not a fan of Mosin Nagants?

 

[Nestor]

Thank you for the pictures. Yup, my eyes are not all that great anymore. Honestly it's kind of difficult to be sure about the inside of the bore, even while inspecting in person at the store. It's however helpful to learn how to do it and what to avoid. Mosin can't really compete with the modern bolt action rifles, but it will do the job and take more abuse than any, other, modern offering. Plus the ammo is cheap and one can fix a bayonet on it

 

[Robert Nicholson]

Thank you for the pictures. Yup, my eyes are not all that great anymore. Honestly it's kind of difficult to be sure about the inside of the bore, even while inspecting in person at the store. It's however helpful to learn how to do it and what to avoid. Mosin can't really compete with the modern bolt action rifles, but it will do the job and take more abuse than any, other, modern offering. Plus the ammo is cheap and one can fix a bayonet on it

Plus one on all that ^^

 

[gewehr76]

Another point is that if you guys buying rifles that are marked <ГИС> on bolt and under handguard and have manual, then these are no longer military rifles. These are technically hunting rifles that went through inspection at proofing house like Molot or other such enterprise. Once they are inspected and marked then they can be sold to civilians like us. Which means that barrels are inspected and deemed satisfactory for civilian use.

 

[Butcherbill]

To add the discussion on bore quality, how the shiny the bore is usually has little to do with precision on a milsurp. How worn out the rifling, muzzle and crown are is usually the determining factor in poor precision. Loose stock fit is also a major one.

Agreed, I have a 1942 mosin that has great rifling with minimal to no pitting. Yet the bore was dark when I bought it, after a good initial cleaning and a few good sessions at the range (2-300 rnds) and cleanings it has shined up really nicely. With irons its shooting 1.5"x2" groups at 80-100 yrds, with new norc surplus. It will ring the 100yrd 8" steel gong everytime if I'm doing my part.

 

[mkrnel]

This is what a excellent Mosin bore should look like -



A VGC bore -



A Good Bore -



And a Poor but still shootable Bore -



This is what a Counter Bore looks like -

 

[6MT]

Thanks! Nice pictures.

 

[bigedp51]

Amazing bore scope photos! Learned alot from that! One thing though.....noisy maggot? I take it you are not a fan of Mosin Nagants?

Noisy Maggot is just their nick name, I sold off the majority of my milsurps and bought new rifles I could put scopes on. And then I found out new button rifled barrels are just as rough as older milsurp barrels. At 65 I can't see inside the barrels or the sights any more and they don't make braille sights.

 

[bearhunter]

To add the discussion on bore quality, how the shiny the bore is usually has little to do with precision on a milsurp. How worn out the rifling, muzzle and crown are is usually the determining factor in poor precision. Loose stock fit is also a major one.

This is true but it needs more explanation for a newbie. There are a lot of milsurps out there with well maintained very shiny bores with that have a lot of wear. Then you have to be able to distinguish between the different rifling designs. Some have sharp edges to the spirals and some are rounded as well as other shapes.

The first thing you look for is of course whether or not it's shiny. Then you look at the muzzle. Worn muzzles are usually pretty obvious. The bullet test is OK but doesn't really tell you anything other than the bullet slips all the way to the case neck. Some cartridges with very short bullets and long ogives tell you nothing. It's pretty easy to look at a muzzle and tell whether it's worn from firing or a troopie filing it off with the pull through during cleaning. If the crown isn't mangled and the bore looks sharp it should be OK. The next thing to do is pull the bolt and with a bore light look at the leade. That's where the wear will first appear and most people don't even look. The leade is the area just in front of the chamber where the lands are angled by the chamber reamer to accept the bullet as it enters the barrel. It works like a funnel to help center the bullet to the bore. Often people refer to this area as the throat. It's not right but most people understand what it means.

If the leade is pushed forward from hot gasses and flame it shows up pretty quickly. I looked at a Mosin today that had the leade pushed forward at least 6cm.

 

[Nestor]

Thank you again. Your posts are very helpful.

 

[ziggyboy]

If any one has a borescope it takes the guess work out of what we can just see with the naked eye,
but if you have a bad bore on a russ. 91 or what ever and want to try something , Fire lap it
you would be amazed at what results you will get, I had a bad gun and bought some diamond lap
compound sold on ebay it comes in syringes , and in diff mesh of diamond size microns I started
with a course diamond and fired 10 shots of each and cleaned after the ten shots and went down to finer
and finer until my bore looked like a shot gun LOL no just kidding there was rifling it did not tear
the rifling out, I had nothing to loose to begin with, that is why I tried it, and I did not hand load I just
put a bit of laping compound on the head of the bullet and the g forces pushed it into the path of the bullet and
down the bore, but what was amazing was my groups started at 4 inchs at 100 or greater and after lapping
were under a inch and the bore was shinny not dark and rough, most do not know that Russian ammo has
a hollow base bullet so it swages the bore, the Russians did this to accom all types of bore dia. encountered
If you want to see what fire lapping does google and see what can be done to improve your bore.
and you do not need much lapping on the bullet just a wipe where you can see the stuff not a blob,
any questions go to youtube and check out fire lapping,

 

[Nestor]

I've read about using a "Never Dull" product from Walmart or Canadian Tire to clean the bore as well. So far it works pretty damn well for me and costs only few $$$.