the spank
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Can You Shoot 44-40 Through A 410 Shotgun, Or Is It A Myth?
- Thread starter albayo
- Start date
I'm not advocating this practice in any way. .44-40 bullets are .427"-.429" and a .410 is essentially .41". However, this is more than an "I heard myth". This used to be a very common practice among bird/rabbit hunters of the 50s through 70s, at least on the east coast. They would carry a few .44-40 rounds in their pockets in case they got a chance at a deer. I expect the soft lead bullets of the .44-40s of that era made it workable and I have seen them fired without issue a good number of times, it was in fact quite common.
This was certainly used, but it was a different time and information wasn't as readily available in those days.
Just adding this for the sake of handing on old experiences.
This was certainly used, but it was a different time and information wasn't as readily available in those days.
Just adding this for the sake of handing on old experiences.
You can definitely chamber and fire 44-40 and 303 in a .410 gun, but whether or not it's actually a good idea, is something else entirely. .45 Long Colt will also chamber and fire.
As for safety, I wouldn't do it with either 44-40 or 45 Long Colt. The chamber pressure is going to be significantly higher than the gun is designed for, and although if you're using soft lead boolits, they should swage down through the choke, you're asking a lot from the barrel. It's been done, and people have gotten away with it, but I wouldn't call it a good idea.
Although .303 has a lot more power behind it, it's actually safer. Because the bullet diameter is so much less than the barrel, any over-pressure just escapes around the bullet. The accuracy will be non-existent, as the bullet rattles its way down the oversized barrel, and you won't get much velocity either, as so much force is lost with the gas escaping around the bullet. It falls into the category of "stupid party trick" - not smart, not useful, waste of ammo.
You can use the brass from the above cartridges to make .410 brass, though. I don't use 44-40 or 45 LC, because you end up with quite a short cartridge with limited capacity. However, carefully fireformed .303 brass works out to slightly more than 2.5" case length, which is the same capacity as a 2&3/4" .410 shotshell (the length is measured after the crimp has expanded out - 2&34" .410 shells only have 2.5" capacity, give or take a few mil.)
I use these for varminting, because at close to 1$/shell for commercial #6 loads, it seems a bit pricey for blasting gophers at close range. I H110 powder (look up your own load data, and go with what you feel safe with), a cotton wad cut from cotton cleaning patches, plastic shotcup wad (cheap bulk), 1/2oz of #6 shot, and then seal it with about 1/4 of a cotton ball wetted with Elmer's glue. With a primer, my cost works out to around 12 cents a round. Unlike plastic hulls, you can reload the brass virtually indefinitely.
Effective on gophers at 15 yards without any issue, 20 yards on the "extreme". I could probably push that if I mucked about with my powder charge and shot size, but that covers what I want it to do (gopher shots at 10-15 yards, which is a bit close to try and get a scope on with my .22).
Also, they look spiffy.
As for safety, I wouldn't do it with either 44-40 or 45 Long Colt. The chamber pressure is going to be significantly higher than the gun is designed for, and although if you're using soft lead boolits, they should swage down through the choke, you're asking a lot from the barrel. It's been done, and people have gotten away with it, but I wouldn't call it a good idea.
Although .303 has a lot more power behind it, it's actually safer. Because the bullet diameter is so much less than the barrel, any over-pressure just escapes around the bullet. The accuracy will be non-existent, as the bullet rattles its way down the oversized barrel, and you won't get much velocity either, as so much force is lost with the gas escaping around the bullet. It falls into the category of "stupid party trick" - not smart, not useful, waste of ammo.
You can use the brass from the above cartridges to make .410 brass, though. I don't use 44-40 or 45 LC, because you end up with quite a short cartridge with limited capacity. However, carefully fireformed .303 brass works out to slightly more than 2.5" case length, which is the same capacity as a 2&3/4" .410 shotshell (the length is measured after the crimp has expanded out - 2&34" .410 shells only have 2.5" capacity, give or take a few mil.)
I use these for varminting, because at close to 1$/shell for commercial #6 loads, it seems a bit pricey for blasting gophers at close range. I H110 powder (look up your own load data, and go with what you feel safe with), a cotton wad cut from cotton cleaning patches, plastic shotcup wad (cheap bulk), 1/2oz of #6 shot, and then seal it with about 1/4 of a cotton ball wetted with Elmer's glue. With a primer, my cost works out to around 12 cents a round. Unlike plastic hulls, you can reload the brass virtually indefinitely.
Effective on gophers at 15 yards without any issue, 20 yards on the "extreme". I could probably push that if I mucked about with my powder charge and shot size, but that covers what I want it to do (gopher shots at 10-15 yards, which is a bit close to try and get a scope on with my .22).
Also, they look spiffy.
The reformed or fire formed straight brass cases for the .410 were called the .410 Everlasting at one time. I don't know if they were ever factory loaded but I wouldn't be surprised if they were out there.
I would think the .405 Winchester brass would form up well for this purpose as it's basically like a .303 British basic case.
I would think the .405 Winchester brass would form up well for this purpose as it's basically like a .303 British basic case.
There are a few videos out there of guys torturing a cheap single .410 with all sorts of inappropriate ammunition. Highest pressure round was .454 Casull which exited with plenty of power. I wouldn't try it myself...
digitalblue
CGN Regular
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- GTA unfortunately
From a liability and ethical point of view, I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever say that firing a 45LC, 44-40, 303, etc is "safe".
From an engineering point of view, it really isn't the most unsafe/insane thing you could do(depending on the gun).
A lot of single shot 410s (Cooey, H&R, CBC, etc) use the same action and barrel stock as the 12ga variant, the only real differences being the ID of the bore diameter and chamber dimensions. In these cases, you have an insanely overbuilt chamber/barrel and the action is more than adequate to cope with the bolt thrust generated. The only real unknown is the pressure behavior when swaging a 44/45 cal bullet down to .41 upon firing; no official research has been done to characterize this sort of thing. A 303 in a .410 dia barrel probably isn't dangerous though since there's a significant size mismatch between the projectile and bore (0.100" overbore). Your 303 will never reach close to intended peak pressures or velocities in such a wildly overbored barrel.
With that being said, I'd never try it unless my life depended on it.
From an engineering point of view, it really isn't the most unsafe/insane thing you could do(depending on the gun).
A lot of single shot 410s (Cooey, H&R, CBC, etc) use the same action and barrel stock as the 12ga variant, the only real differences being the ID of the bore diameter and chamber dimensions. In these cases, you have an insanely overbuilt chamber/barrel and the action is more than adequate to cope with the bolt thrust generated. The only real unknown is the pressure behavior when swaging a 44/45 cal bullet down to .41 upon firing; no official research has been done to characterize this sort of thing. A 303 in a .410 dia barrel probably isn't dangerous though since there's a significant size mismatch between the projectile and bore (0.100" overbore). Your 303 will never reach close to intended peak pressures or velocities in such a wildly overbored barrel.
With that being said, I'd never try it unless my life depended on it.
BlackPowderBurner
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Not that I'd recommend doing anything like this but I've got an Ishapore musket reamed for commercial .410 that I've fired .44-40 and .41rem mag out of with no ill effects. I am currently in the process of fire forming some IVI brass to straight wall so I can load up some shot and musket ball loads. Might do a thread on it in the future.
Funny thing this old wives tail chit.
Read the info stamped awn the bawrill.
Then matchizz this lawgo wid the info stamped awn the ammo.
Iff'in the two rezzemble each t'uther............good tuh go.
Iff'in it don't, well, say a prayer.
Stewpid shewld hert.
Read the info stamped awn the bawrill.
Then matchizz this lawgo wid the info stamped awn the ammo.
Iff'in the two rezzemble each t'uther............good tuh go.
Iff'in it don't, well, say a prayer.
Stewpid shewld hert.
Full choke .410 equals .396 to .386 or there about..........
Like others said "what could go wrong?"
And there's been pages of internet ink spilled over the evils of steel shot through older full choke shotguns???
Like others said "what could go wrong?"
And there's been pages of internet ink spilled over the evils of steel shot through older full choke shotguns???
O.K. what about the hundreds, thousands? of bond arm derringers in 410/45LC
44/40 is a necked down 45 is it not?
No choke of course, thank god, they are bad enough straight bore, btw, one inch or rifling with 410 is silly, a straight smooth bore is way better
But for what they where made for, guess it works.
44/40 is a necked down 45 is it not?
No choke of course, thank god, they are bad enough straight bore, btw, one inch or rifling with 410 is silly, a straight smooth bore is way better
But for what they where made for, guess it works.
