Can You Stop a Charge Better with Pepper Spray or a Firearm???

[John Y Cannuck]

No question, some people are petrified of firearms, perhaps more so than the bear. To them, that spray can is the only option.
They can in most cases of course be cured of their fear. But they need a trusted individual to walk them through it, and they have to want to.

 

[narraway]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.
you tell me how many people are able to do so in a stress situation.
bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

 

[Boomer]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.
you tell me how many people are able to do so in a stress situation.
bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

I can, CC can, Pounder can, why couldn't you? Check out some Mark Sullivan videos to see how it's done under stress.

Nice shooting as always CC.

As a practical drill I would suggest shooting from about 15 feet and fire pairs. A big part of my drills is on bolt work, and I believe it's a bad habit to take the gun down after the shot to admire your handiwork. Everyone says they wouldn't in a real situation, but the reality is that you fight like you train. Topping off the magazine with eyes on target is also a valuable skill.

My experience with big bears is that they seldom react to live fire. The best example I can think of to demonstrate this is when I sent a 380 gr bullet whizzing over the head of a bear 30 feet from us who then approached! If you can spray them with rock fragments or kick dirt in their face it seems to work better, but at the risk of wounding the bear with a ricochet. At this point in time I believe that a firearm is a lethal weapon and should be used as such. There is nothing wrong with carrying a cracker shell pistol or have a companion carry a shotgun with crackers and/or rubber bullets, but there must be a dedicated lethal firearm available. For me the bear decides the outcome of the encounter. If he is determined to get contact close I'm going to kill him, and in the past I've let them get much too close.

The wind here is always a consideration, making bear spray unreliable at best, and dangerous to the user at worst. A pal of mine suffered a serious eye injury just that way when he attempted to spray a bear at bad breath range and the breeze shifted just as he hit the trigger. I suppose it drove the bear off, but he was in so much pain he was beyond caring.

 

[manbearpig]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.

ive never been charged by a bear.
but come on, youre saying that 'shooting it in the spine' is the only way to deter it with a gun?

im sure that shooting a bear anywhere CM with an appropriate centerfire - and even just the sound of the gunshots - would be a more effective deterrent than trying to spray it with an aerosol can of pepper spray.

from most online tests and accounts ive seen pepper spray is a BS and mostly ineffective liberal solution in a society that fears/loathes guns. if you tried to tell some old guy in Alaska back in the 1800s to leave his gun(s) at home and defend himself from bears with a can of pepper spray he'd have slapped you upside the head.

i wonder what well be using 10 years from now when people decide that bear spray is non-PC - its already highly regulated. well probably be issued kazoos.

bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

how many accounts are there from credible sources (ie: not from bear spray manufacturers, hippies or liberals) of people successfully turning a full-on charge (not a bluff-charge) with standard commercial pepperspray?
how many are there from people with firearms?

my money is on the firearm. IMO bearspray is for people with no PAL or as a supplement to a firearm.

 

[John Marshall]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.
you tell me how many people are able to do so in a stress situation.
bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

Huh?

 

[Camp Cook]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.
you tell me how many people are able to do so in a stress situation.
bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

Obviously not much...

Doesn't matter how many can do it as the anti's say "if it only saves one life"

Bear spray maybe proven to work in a perfect scenario but so have firearms and I don't need to worry about the wind.

I have had to shoot several bears in defense situations and have even legally used handguns to stop charges yes I am licensed with an ATC for remote area handgun carry.

Oh by the way it isn't only a spine shot that can stop a bear in a charge that is an urban myth made up by lying lieberals to decieve the minds of their urbanite followers.


Boomer once again the voice of the experienced excellent post.

 

[Boomer]

Double Tap.

 

[Boomer]

ive never been charged by a bear.
but come on, youre saying that 'shooting it in the spine' is the only way to deter it with a gun?

im sure that shooting a bear anywhere CM with an appropriate centerfire - and even just the sound of the gunshots - would be a more effective deterrent than trying to spray it with an aerosol can of pepper spray.

from most online tests and accounts ive seen pepper spray is a BS and mostly ineffective liberal solution in a society that fears/loathes guns. if you tried to tell some old guy in Alaska back in the 1800s to leave his gun(s) at home and defend himself from bears with a can of pepper spray he'd have slapped you upside the head.

i wonder what well be using 10 years from now when people decide that bear spray is non-PC - its already highly regulated. well probably be issued kazoos.





how many accounts are there from credible sources (ie: not from bear spray manufacturers, hippies or liberals) of people successfully turning a full-on charge (not a bluff-charge) with standard commercial pepperspray?
how many are there from people with firearms?

my money is on the firearm. IMO bearspray is for people with no PAL or as a supplement to a firearm.

Generally breaking a big bone resolves the immediate danger, but if you find yourself in the unfortunate scenario of say being dragged out of a tent while in your sleeping bag, or if an attack comes from very close range say in a stand of willows you were foolish enough to push through, a heavy slug to the brain pan or spine is the only sure way to survive. Any large predator who has committed himself to an attack might not be turned by a chest wound. Even a perfect chest shot takes time to deplete the brain of blood. If one shot is all you have time for, and you make a chest shot, you may of doomed yourself. Don't shoot too soon, and don't miss.

 

[the_big_mike]

bear spray is a better choice than a firearn.
why?
to stop a charging bear one must shoot it in his spine.
you tell me how many people are able to do so in a stress situation.
bear spray is proven to work, whereas 'action shooting' works unter controled
circumstances on a gun range (or in a gravle pit).
but what do i know?

How do you think bear spray works? It 'wounds' the bear (via eyes and nostrils I believe?) and makes it think that its under attack. They therefore are supposed to leave you alone.

A firearm actually does damage faster, at more range and is 10000000% more effective in trained hands then spray is. If you can take a spray can from your belt, find out where the nozzle is, and have time to spray it: you have enough time to grab a gun, word the action or drop the safety and fire.

 

[manbearpig]

You folk that have actually been in bear attack situationss (Boomer, huntinstuff, Gatehouse, etc):

would you stake your life on a 'less than perfect' CoM shot with an appropriate centerfire, or a perfect application of bear spray?
assuming the bear is actually charging - not huffing around or bluff charging - its actually going for you.

 

[popcan]

I think your practice of a warning shot is best. The sooner the better.

...if solo, that would be a warning shot between the eyes.....


I have never had to shoot a bear in self defence, but I would think you want a gun big enough to smash bones and tear up a big wound channel, a-la 12g slugs or like CC's 45-70,

Wouldn't that do for a center of mass shot?




ps, it's strange, but I used to be around a lot more bears when I didn't have guns.......

 

[Boomer]

You folk that have actually been in bear attack situationss (Boomer, huntinstuff, Gatehouse, etc):

would you stake your life on a 'less than perfect' CoM shot with an appropriate centerfire, or a perfect application of bear spray?
assuming the bear is actually charging - not huffing around or bluff charging - its actually going for you.

I've experienced some exciting bear encounters and I have accumulated the experience to recognize a potentially dangerous situation, even before I see the bear. By the time I've made contact I am ready and would wait until I could make a good shot. Under conditions of thick cover where I could only see patches of the bear and would be unable to identify exactly what I was shooting at, I can't say with certainty what I would do, and what I might do one day, I might not do another. If I was forced to take an imperfect center of mass shot, I would certainly work the action as fast as was humanly possible in anticipation of what would surely follow. When you anticipate a dangerous confrontation, you must adjust your mind to a particular course of action. This way your actions are an automatic and immediate response to a particular stimuli in a stressful, fluid situation. Pepper spray has no place in my world.

 

[Camp Cook]

When I am in the bush and carrying my rifle it is loaded with a round in the chamber and the safety on if I lay it down I remove the round from the chamber but leave the mag full.

My defense load for the Marlin 1895GS 45-70 is either 425/430gr WLNGC @ 1900fps or 525/550gr WlNGC's @ 1600/1650fps respectively.

I have a few more rifles and shotguns that I am going to dig out and do the same tests with the next chance I get.

I'll include some handguns as well but I will put the target closer for them maybe 7/8 yards and 15 yards to simulate a close in charge like the 2 charge video's posted earlier.

 

[Gatehouse]

You folk that have actually been in bear attack situationss (Boomer, huntinstuff, Gatehouse, etc):

would you stake your life on a 'less than perfect' CoM shot with an appropriate centerfire, or a perfect application of bear spray?
assuming the bear is actually charging - not huffing around or bluff charging - its actually going for you.

I've never been "charged" by a bear, although I have had plenty of encounters, been stalked, been terrorized, had to drive off bears with gunfire, and killed a few problem bears. (i've also been pretty lucky in that any "problem " bear I've had to kill was in an open season, and I had tags!)

I'd echo what Boomer aid- each situation is different, you normally don't need to make a quick draw/snap shot- you usually have some time to make a good shot- if you can keep your wits about you, and not panic!

 

[John Y Cannuck]

but what do i know?

Not much I reckon.
A person familiar with a firearm is quite capable of delivering a fatal shot even under panicky conditions, if he or she has conditioned themselves to do so.
The person who goes out and buys pepper spray, and then feels confident in all circumstances with no training, is as good as dead should he/she be charged.
Both require training, and practice. A firearms is sure, pepper spray is maybe.

 

[manbearpig]

I'll include some handguns as well but I will put the target closer for them maybe 7/8 yards and 15 yards to simulate a close in charge like the 2 charge video's posted earlier.

if i recall, Boomer had some videos posted here where an accomplice drove a jeep away from him with a cardboard box attached to it by a rope heading straight towards him to simulate a charging 'bear'

on rough ground i guess it would bounce around like mad too and add some unpredictability?

 

[Camp Cook]

I remember that...

Boomer do you still have it and if you do could you post it again?

 

[Sharkson]

I put this into a thread in the Articles section that was discussing pepper spray as being better than a firearm when it comes to stopping a bear charge.

Thought I would share it here as well...

Thanks for sharing!

 

[crazy_davey]

I have been face to face with a pi$$ed off grizzly bear on more than one ocassion, full on charged by one and lots of close quarter encounters with black bears. I will take a rifle over bear spray every time, I don't care what the "experts" say.

Will the rifle be a 100% guarantee, not a friggen chance. Anyone who says different has never had a grizzly bear charge them at full speed. Only if I practice lots and stay on top of my game while out there will I have the upper hand on a charging grizzly bear but nothing is 100%. Just ask a close family friend who is now missing a good part of one side of his face including his eye because a grizzly blind sided him while he was out moose hunting, he never knew what hit him. This fellow had more experience with "big" bears than most folks around here.

One just never knows...

Great vid and great shooting as always CC!

 

[Boomer]

I think CC just likes to look at this because it makes his shooting look so good.



Good point Dave, not every circumstance can be foreseen, and there is never a guaranteed outcome. Consider how these guys make a living, and consider that they wouldn't get big if they didn't prevail. But when the problem is simply one of marksmanship and a knowledge of anatomy, we have the advantage. Should we go stumbling willy nilly through the willows or go to investigate that bad smell, he has the advantage.