Can You Stop a Charge Better with Pepper Spray or a Firearm???
- Thread starter Camp Cook
- Start date
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
Here's a simple test of how people really feel about which is safer, the firearm or the bear spray. And it's a safe and easy test (guys use this sort of thinking when deciding what kind of weapon to carry for human predators as well BTW).
Imagine that you know for a fact that your family WILL BE ATTACKED by a bear on the hike out from the cabin this afternoon. Do you take the bear spray, or the firearm?
Anyone leave the firearm back at the cabin???
Imagine that you know for a fact that your family WILL BE ATTACKED by a bear on the hike out from the cabin this afternoon. Do you take the bear spray, or the firearm?
Anyone leave the firearm back at the cabin???
I went back to the range yesterday but with handguns this time.
I set up a bear target that my wife drew for me @ 15 yards the head is 15" side to side and 13" top to bottom.
All shots fired in the video are with my 4.25" Ruger Super Redhawk chambered in 454 Casull that Gunnar @ Armco in Prince George, BC shortened for me.
In the first try (not shown) I was shooting my 45 Colt loads of 24grs H110 and 300gr XTP's @ 1280fps (remember I am shooting these in a SRH) as fast as I could in the SRH and did fairly poorly.
So here is the video of the second try with the first attempt using the same 45 Colt loads and the second try is with 454 Casull loads of 30grs H110 and 300gr XTP-Mag's @ 1500fps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJOIRP_dy9c
Here is a picture of the target at the end of the shoot.
I used my Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt, G29 10mm, SRH with both 45 Colt & 454 Casull and ended up with my G23 40S&W and shot everything as fast as I could I didn't tape anymore becasue I was running late.
The bullet holes that are not covered with tape are the results of 2 ten round mag's in the G23 this is one awesomely accurate Glock I shot it as fast as I could squeeze the trigger.
I set up a bear target that my wife drew for me @ 15 yards the head is 15" side to side and 13" top to bottom.
All shots fired in the video are with my 4.25" Ruger Super Redhawk chambered in 454 Casull that Gunnar @ Armco in Prince George, BC shortened for me.
In the first try (not shown) I was shooting my 45 Colt loads of 24grs H110 and 300gr XTP's @ 1280fps (remember I am shooting these in a SRH) as fast as I could in the SRH and did fairly poorly.
So here is the video of the second try with the first attempt using the same 45 Colt loads and the second try is with 454 Casull loads of 30grs H110 and 300gr XTP-Mag's @ 1500fps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJOIRP_dy9c
Here is a picture of the target at the end of the shoot.
I used my Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt, G29 10mm, SRH with both 45 Colt & 454 Casull and ended up with my G23 40S&W and shot everything as fast as I could I didn't tape anymore becasue I was running late.
The bullet holes that are not covered with tape are the results of 2 ten round mag's in the G23 this is one awesomely accurate Glock I shot it as fast as I could squeeze the trigger.
Last edited:
soldier506
Regular
- Location
- saskatchewan,canada
Great video and good demostartation of skill.
Great video CC, that'll get me going to the range and playing with my lever gun. But, back to your original question....I have a can of bearspray that is now date expired, I don't keep bullets around long enough to expire them, I'll take the smoke pole, thank you very much
Bear security. That's what i want to do too. Thought maybe Churchill would be a good place to hang out a shingle. Though it seems they have a lot of infrastructure there already.
The one thing about the one video I saw, I have dial-up, that I didn't much like was windmilling the rifle like that. It looked a little inconsistant, and poor muzzle control (exept where it counted, thumbs up on the hits). If I have a kid behind me, or some waist high bush I don't want to be pulling that trick, and I just want the one trick.
I'm kinda influenced by the way they are doing it with the ARs these days. Guys walking around in Afghanistan, or doing close security work don't seem to be carrying on their backs, then windmilling the rifle forward. I'm trying to intergrate the best stuff we have from that field, CASS, and DG practices in Africa, but with levers here on the home turf, and there aren't enough volunteers at my place to really get any experience on. We have a lot of Sh*& but not much show.
The one thing about the one video I saw, I have dial-up, that I didn't much like was windmilling the rifle like that. It looked a little inconsistant, and poor muzzle control (exept where it counted, thumbs up on the hits). If I have a kid behind me, or some waist high bush I don't want to be pulling that trick, and I just want the one trick.
I'm kinda influenced by the way they are doing it with the ARs these days. Guys walking around in Afghanistan, or doing close security work don't seem to be carrying on their backs, then windmilling the rifle forward. I'm trying to intergrate the best stuff we have from that field, CASS, and DG practices in Africa, but with levers here on the home turf, and there aren't enough volunteers at my place to really get any experience on. We have a lot of Sh*& but not much show.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
I set up a bear target that my wife drew for me @ 15 yards the head is 15" side to side and 13" top to bottom.
ahahaha, best target ever
Never said that this is the only way to shoulder a rifle this is just the fastest most fun way that I know of from this position.
I also carry opposite shoulder barrel down and twist the rifle up in front of me the problem with this method is the barrel is always close to brushing into something as your walking.
Many times I carry the rifle in my hands or angled across my chest in the military carry style you commented on.
The biggest mistake you can make is to only be proficient in one carry method.
You just gave me an idea I will put a video together all of the different carry positions that I use and others can also post their styles maye we can all learn some better or at least different techniques.
"Never said that this is the only way to shoulder a rifle this is just the fastest most fun way that I know of from this position."
Right, I was impressed with the speed and re-ran the tape a few times to look at what you did, both in admiration and with a little nit-picking in mind. Nonetheless, "most fun" doesn't seem like it should be the criterion.
"The biggest mistake you can make is to only be proficient in one carry method."
I'm not sure I buy that. Obviously if one caries 20 different ways, one needs 20 different proficiencies, 10 or 4, depending on the number of ways. It would be bad to carry 20 different ways but only practice one. But it would be better still to carry just one way and only have to practice one way.
This gets back to bear security vs. prospector juggling. If you are putting on bear security, I don't see why you need to have a slew of different carry options. I can see how the gun may end up in a ton of different places if one is ballancing a shovel, pan, geiger counter, frying pan, who knows what. But If I was guarding biologists in Churchill, my one frame of reference, I don't see why my gun should be out of reach or in various positions.
Also it comes down to guys who can carry pistols vs. those who can't. If all you have is a rifle, and if there is really a bear situation at hand, then it means being wedded to the rifle in some way.
Just my current thinking.
Right, I was impressed with the speed and re-ran the tape a few times to look at what you did, both in admiration and with a little nit-picking in mind. Nonetheless, "most fun" doesn't seem like it should be the criterion.
"The biggest mistake you can make is to only be proficient in one carry method."
I'm not sure I buy that. Obviously if one caries 20 different ways, one needs 20 different proficiencies, 10 or 4, depending on the number of ways. It would be bad to carry 20 different ways but only practice one. But it would be better still to carry just one way and only have to practice one way.
This gets back to bear security vs. prospector juggling. If you are putting on bear security, I don't see why you need to have a slew of different carry options. I can see how the gun may end up in a ton of different places if one is ballancing a shovel, pan, geiger counter, frying pan, who knows what. But If I was guarding biologists in Churchill, my one frame of reference, I don't see why my gun should be out of reach or in various positions.
Also it comes down to guys who can carry pistols vs. those who can't. If all you have is a rifle, and if there is really a bear situation at hand, then it means being wedded to the rifle in some way.
Just my current thinking.
I have hiked plenty in the past. Not an option since the plane crash. But I do remember the part about putting one foot ahead of the other. But again, I think there are activities where the defence role is primary or secondary. Even saying that though, I don't think it's impossible to maintain a single means of carry while hiking. Perhaps the reason the gun is getting shifted around is because that hasn't been dealt with. What I do remember about hiking, rock climbing, ice climbing is that it didn't pay to have the gear spread all over the place in random droppings. Packs, and climbing gear, all had their place, and over time you could reach for what you need without having to look or think about it. Beware the man with one gun, as long as he know where it is.
I think the lever tactics are at the level of fanning, quickdraw, FBI crouch, and so forth, vs. where we are with handgun tactics today. In general, there is less need. Bears and levers are all I have to worry about though.
I think the lever tactics are at the level of fanning, quickdraw, FBI crouch, and so forth, vs. where we are with handgun tactics today. In general, there is less need. Bears and levers are all I have to worry about though.
Hey Pepper sorry too hear about your plane crash and I apologize for sounding negative to you it wasn't/isn't intended to be.
I carry for many different reasons and with multiple different firearms from rifles/shotguns/handguns.
The trick/tactic of windmilling the long guns came from racing my buddy over 30 years ago to shoot gophers faster than him I hadn't done it in over 5 years.
I decided to video this to show that when a person is proficient in the use of firearms they can get a firearm into position and fire accurately faster and at a further distance than pepper spray.
Maybe its a trick but if you can do it proficiently someday it may save mine or someone elses lives.
I also have taught myself to draw handguns and spin them like in the movies does this help me shoot better once again maybe but one thing is for sure due to the amount of time a handgun is in my hands I have become far more familiar with it which results in me becoming more proficient with it.
Same goes with a long gun...
This is also why I state that a person should be comfortable with multiple carry methods and that they should be able to get the firearm up loaded and fire accurately from any of these carry methods.
Has nothing to do with being unorginized it has to do with becoming as proficient as possible.
If you are content to only use one method all the power to you...
I carry for many different reasons and with multiple different firearms from rifles/shotguns/handguns.
The trick/tactic of windmilling the long guns came from racing my buddy over 30 years ago to shoot gophers faster than him I hadn't done it in over 5 years.
I decided to video this to show that when a person is proficient in the use of firearms they can get a firearm into position and fire accurately faster and at a further distance than pepper spray.
Maybe its a trick but if you can do it proficiently someday it may save mine or someone elses lives.
I also have taught myself to draw handguns and spin them like in the movies does this help me shoot better once again maybe but one thing is for sure due to the amount of time a handgun is in my hands I have become far more familiar with it which results in me becoming more proficient with it.
Same goes with a long gun...
This is also why I state that a person should be comfortable with multiple carry methods and that they should be able to get the firearm up loaded and fire accurately from any of these carry methods.
Has nothing to do with being unorginized it has to do with becoming as proficient as possible.
If you are content to only use one method all the power to you...
