Can you tell me this gun's hitory and what it's worth?

svt-40

svt-40

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Webley RIC, advertised as 455 cal but obviously not, it's 442.
I tried a spent 44 rem mag case in the chambers and it slides about 1/4 in. A 45ACP is way too large. How can the bore condition be described?

Full size pictures at http://www.vintageelectronics.ca/gallery.php?album=guns/WebleyRIC

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What is best way to manufacture ammo for this beauty?
I thought of trimming down and fullsizing some 44 caliber case.
What is the nearest available case and what bullets should I use for paper? The Lee TL452-230TC looks nice, if I can get it in the proper diameter. The diameter of the chamber mouth is .435, the bore diameter is .430". The different sources list different bullet diameter for RIC, which is the right one?
 
I would suggest taking a wax casting (cerrosafe if you have it) of the chamber and measuring it with a micrometer. Then go through Cartridges of the World to find something that you can make the shell from. You also need to measure accurately the gap at the back which is the rim thickness because most american shells have rims around .065" while many british ones are in the range of .040". You could be looking at shortening either a pistol or a rifle shell and thinning the rim. With a bit of luck, neck sizing in a .44 mag or 44-40 die will make the neck tight enough to hold the bullets.

cheers mooncoon
 
This is a Frist model RIC its a 442 caliber gun.
Webley changed to 450 with the second Model RICs tho some frist models were made 450 and even 455.

44 mag cases Resized and cut down and the rims thinned will fire form But getting the right bullet is a Nightmare.
Some guys just use a Round Ball as a Bullet pressed into the fireformed case mouth then lube pushed ontop around the lead ball.
I collect 442 Caliber Webs so PM me.
I just bought one almost exactly the same as yours.
 
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I think they may have used a healed bullet and are tough to load for. Measure the bore, forcing cone and cylinder mouths.

Nice little antique definetley a joy to own!
 
.44 Mag or Special is the case to use. You must thin the rim and cut the case down. Don't bother turning the rim diameter, the cases fit ok without the mod.

Thin the rim from the case side and not the primer side or you'll make the primer pocket shallow. Cut the case to .8 and push in a .440 (size to .436) ball just under the top of the case, fill with lube and cover with a wad made from milk carton or wax paper to keep the dirt out. Use a harder lube and pour it warm for a round that can be handled better.

Have fun :)
 
Thats a great idea about useing the harder Lube heated!

I hate some of these Antique Rds i load with the Sticky soft lube all over everything :rolleyes:
Im working on some Shot rds that heated harder lube to keep the shot from falling out and not being sticky is a great idea!

Beats the cake of soap trick :D
just stick the case in a bar of soap and twist off and ya got a shot plug but they dont handle well.
 
It seems that I found another dirt cheap alternative to the 44 cal cases - it's 303 brit. Fits right in and snug. Just need to machine the rim a tiny bit otherwise it's rubbing on the loading gate.
 
svt-40 said:
It seems that I found another dirt cheap alternative to the 44 cal cases - it's 303 brit. Fits right in and snug. Just need to machine the rim a tiny bit otherwise it's rubbing on the loading gate.
Click to expand...


AARGH!! damn you! You have discovered my secret. :D

That's what I do with 303 cases that have split at the neck. Nice thick brass too huh.

Now don't be chopping good 303 brass now!
 
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dingus said:
Thats a great idea about using the harder Lube heated!
Click to expand...
Put masking tape around the top to extend the case. pour, wait till it sets then slice it flush with the mouth.

Put the waste back in the pot. :)


I didnt think of making shotshells though, that's a cool idea! I think I'll pour the lube right into the shot and make "poor mans slugs"
 
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What is an RIC worth?

Well the value as with all things is entirely subjective, I bought my first RIC a second model in .450 for $75 CDN because it had the words HOLLAND on it and the seller thought it was a Belgian knock-off. After cleaning it up it proved to have the inscription I. Holland of New Bond St. London. The second one I paid $550 CDN for and thought it was far too much but had to have it since it would be a nice match to the first one. This one was the next improvement of the one you have. Mine is a second issue of the first model RIC in .442, now I have seen Belgian knock-offs with asking prices of $800and more and British models for upwards of $1200. so chose your price and go with it.
 
Just reporting back: I spent last night machining a 303 british case to the specs of 442. The information I have on 442 case lists two different case lengths: one being 0.725 and another 0.695. Which one is the right one? I am sure it does not make a big difference, but still nice to have the official drawing of the case, which I was not able to find.
 
I can't answer that. I've tried to purchase an original round but it's in the US so I can't.

Most books can't even agree if it is an inside or outside lubed bullet. The originals I've seen though are a heeled outside lubed bullet.

I will say that .69 seems a little short though, but again, the bulldog round was even shorter.

I wrote to webley but have had no reply or acknowledgment yet.

I do know someone who sells original reloading dies for the 442. I'm ordering a set so I'll ask him then. He has alot of info on the .442.
 
Not .442, but I have made pistol cases from rifle brass. Once you've cut them to length, the wall thickness may be way too great. Rather than reaming them, I drove them onto a tapered mandrel (mandrel shaped to represent the inner contour of the pistol case), and then lathe turned the outside to correct diameter. Thinned the rims at the same time. Made the mandrels fron bits of rifle barrel, tapped the cases off the mandrel with a rod, tapped a new case on, without removing the mandrel from the lathe.
FWIW I have a couple of RIC .450s, they will accept unaltered .455 MK. II cases. Made cases for them from .45 Colt, shortening and thinning the rims.
 
Actually, I made a typo - it's .725 or .645, which is even shorter.
Looking at all the pictures of the original 442 rounds, it seems that .725 is par for the game. The bullet is definitely heeled, as the outside diameter of the case equals the bore.

What's the difference between inside and outside lubed bullets?

It's a good idea about the mandrel. I thought of some method to speed up the process and this is it.
 
Inside lubed bullet has grease grooves hidden by the case. Keeps the lube in place. Outside lubed, the exposed bullet is lubed, like a greased .22.
 
Oh, I see! Thank you!

Someone has sent me the Jan 30, 1920 Kynoch drawings of the cartridge. The bullet is heeled, outside lubed, .442 in diameter. It has one grease grove. Case length is .655.
Otherwise the case matches exactly the base of the 303 round, except for a slightly reduced rim. On a second thought, lapping the once fired 303 round is preferable, as the resulting round does not require sizing.

It is interesting how similar are the 442 and 303 rounds.
 
Made 442 cases by trimming 44 Mag.
Cast 205 gr SWC .452" bt of soft lead. Size to .446" then to .440". Size base band to .427". Bell case mouth , seat bt and size in 44 Mag die to crimp bt
Worked fine in TPC RIC.
 
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