the_snowman1
Regular
- Location
- winnipeg manitoba
If you wanna see the cl84 there's one sitting at the western canadian aviation museum
Canadair CL84 vs V22 Osprey
- Thread starter cantom
- Start date
To make a good close support platform, you need to be able to sustain a fair amount of damage... Not the Osprey
The huge propellers also limits your engagement angle.
To be fair, while traditional gunships like the AH-64 or AH-1 have some armour protection, this is more to keep them from being taken down by small arms fire than to safeguard them from dedicated AA guns or SAMs. Given its superior load capacity, an Osprey could probably be up-armoured significantly to give it a similar level of protection. My issue with an Osprey gunship would be... why?
It really wouldn't be a significant improvement over any other CAS platform. Helicopter gunships are more maneuverable and could thus operate better in tightly packed urban environments. CAS aircraft are much faster. If you're looking for range and the ability to pack a bunch of guns into a platform, an AC-130 already does that extremely well. Granted an AC-130 costs well over a $100 million dollars but you could copy the concept and do a bare bones version with any cargo aircraft for significantly less. The first transport gunships were just C-47s with a boatload of side-firing .30 and .50 machine guns bolted on.
the wikipedia piece on the cl84:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84
is actually pretty interesting.
Reading the weight specs:
Empty weight: 8,417 lb (3,818 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 14,500 lb (6,577 kg) (STOL), 12,600 lb (5,710 kg) (VTOL)
Whereas with the V22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey
Empty weight: 33,140 lb (15,032 kg)
Loaded weight: 47,500 lb (21,500 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 60,500 lb (27,400 kg)
Much bigger a/c, with more payload. Don't know if it's fair to compare the two.
in addition to improved control systems, the v22 also has the advantage of 30 more years of material development- for engines and airframe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84
is actually pretty interesting.
Reading the weight specs:
Empty weight: 8,417 lb (3,818 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 14,500 lb (6,577 kg) (STOL), 12,600 lb (5,710 kg) (VTOL)
Whereas with the V22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey
Empty weight: 33,140 lb (15,032 kg)
Loaded weight: 47,500 lb (21,500 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 60,500 lb (27,400 kg)
Much bigger a/c, with more payload. Don't know if it's fair to compare the two.
in addition to improved control systems, the v22 also has the advantage of 30 more years of material development- for engines and airframe.
Since you've seen one...how many troops would one of them hold? There was an ad long ago in Sentinel showing a squad of troops coming out of one.
I just finished reading "A Higher Call" by Adam Makos. It's the story of Franz Stigler, a Luftwaffe pilot and Charlie Brown, a B-17 pilot immortalized in a painting by John Shaw. The picture shows Stigler's BF109G off the port wing of the B17F where he had eye contact with the crew.
The B-17 was badly shot up after bombing Bremen, with a feathered engine, the left stabilizer gone and most of the rudder. Stigler could not believe that it was still flying and indicated that he wanted them to land or head north to Sweden. The US crew refused, opting to fly 2 hours to England.
Stigler saluted them and returned to base, not able to report the incident. Neither could the US crew, under orders. They met long after the war and we friends until they died.
Stigler applied to work on the AVRO "Arrow" (misspelled in the book as 'Aero') as he was one of the most experienced pilots on the ME 262. He was refused because he had been a Luftwaffe Officer, although he and most of his fellow pilots were not Party members and detested the Nazis.
A good read for WWII aviation buffs.
The B-17 was badly shot up after bombing Bremen, with a feathered engine, the left stabilizer gone and most of the rudder. Stigler could not believe that it was still flying and indicated that he wanted them to land or head north to Sweden. The US crew refused, opting to fly 2 hours to England.
Stigler saluted them and returned to base, not able to report the incident. Neither could the US crew, under orders. They met long after the war and we friends until they died.
Stigler applied to work on the AVRO "Arrow" (misspelled in the book as 'Aero') as he was one of the most experienced pilots on the ME 262. He was refused because he had been a Luftwaffe Officer, although he and most of his fellow pilots were not Party members and detested the Nazis.
A good read for WWII aviation buffs.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
I didn't get to see inside it, however the external dimensions appear similar to a Skyvan. I've jumped out of those and stripped of seating they take about 24 people. Assuming the interior is not congested with bulkheads for the wing mechanism maybe about the same? Not sure though, all guess and really can't say.
Edit: took another look at a picture of the side, it isn't as long in the fuselage as a skyvan. Maybe 12 to 15 passengers and kit?
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Yes! We were there summer before last. Well worth it. Tons to see there.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The V22 Osprey corruption scandal has been going on for a while now. Up to recently I hadn't a clue the scandal existed. So far I have not seen any footage of the CL flying through inclement weather. The target customer for the CL was USA Armed Forces. When the USA drew down their big spending, there were no other serious customers. Other than the US Marines there are no other serious customers for the V22. Now why is that?
Paul Hellyer. Just a sec. . . The ANAF were always promising to eliminate immensely costly duplicate administrative services since the days of Sam Hughes. All of this was mere words. Hellyer & civil authorities made the choice for the ANAF which none of the services were going to do on their own initiative for fifty years.
Someone mentioned Dief. He had issues is this abnormal for anyone? Then again the RCN decided to ignore the Prime minister & do what a foreign politician (who many in his own party and support demographic viewed as out of control) was egging them on to do. The RCN deployed for the Caribbean naval blockade. Of course the gong show was not going to continue. Ppl. don't consider these small points.
Paul Hellyer. Just a sec. . . The ANAF were always promising to eliminate immensely costly duplicate administrative services since the days of Sam Hughes. All of this was mere words. Hellyer & civil authorities made the choice for the ANAF which none of the services were going to do on their own initiative for fifty years.
Someone mentioned Dief. He had issues is this abnormal for anyone? Then again the RCN decided to ignore the Prime minister & do what a foreign politician (who many in his own party and support demographic viewed as out of control) was egging them on to do. The RCN deployed for the Caribbean naval blockade. Of course the gong show was not going to continue. Ppl. don't consider these small points.
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About 10 years ago we were flying into yhz and around the Atlantic provinces and atc asked us to report any areas of icing as the osprey was in the area doing testing in icing conditions! Also heard I and seen it go overhead a few times searching for an icy cloud I guess! I could see it being an ice pig at slower speeds for sure!
Because Canada wouldn't have needed and couldn't have afforded enough of them to make it a viable project for the company. Canadair was then a subsidiary of General Dynamics, if it weren't backed by an sizable American company with hopes of selling the thing to the U.S. military there wouldn't have been funds to develop it in the first place.
