Canadian Army Boots

MapleSugar said:
Ha! You read my mind while I was typing out my reply.

Those boots look really nice, too!

I remember some of the guys I worked with at Brinks in the early 90's wearing the Prospector's. One of them was a former airborne artillery sergeant.

They looked nice and they polished up really well, but they were too rich for my blood back then.

But they wouldn't have gotten the hard use that you put them through in the field.
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Shouldn’t have ever polished them. The polish destroyed the water repellency
 
hondroid said:
Shouldn’t have ever polished them. The polish destroyed the water repellency
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We had to wear black boots or shoes that would take polish back then.

I can remember my manager b!tching at me for buying black suede boots. I just polished them until they looked smooth, although they were never shiny.

Those Prospector's wouldn't have gotten very wet except for the trip from the armoured truck to the bank and back. That would have only been in the winter, or when it was raining.

They did look like they could deliver a good boot-fvcking to someone, though.

I just remembered that some guys wore a Hi-Tec tactical boot back then, too.

I seem to recall that some police ERT teams were wearing them as well. They were probably the most modern design at the time.
 
HeadDamage said:
I've still got a pair of unused Grebs I've been hanging onto for some reason.
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A hundred years ago the Mk I combat boots with a direct molded sole used to delaminate like a baloney sandwich without the butter. The sole would unglue and flap around every step. Lowest cost bidder demonstrated.

A few weeks ago after a reenacting event, a young guy showed how his father's Mk III GP boots behaved exactly the same way. He said they'd been issued, worn and put away in an unheated shed. Did the glue fail over time due to high heat? Dunno. But if you want to have those boots in the decades-long rotation cycle of footwear, go try them on and walk around a little.
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
A hundred years ago the Mk I combat boots with a direct molded sole used to delaminate like a baloney sandwich without the butter. The sole would unglue and flap around every step. Lowest cost bidder demonstrated.

A few weeks ago after a reenacting event, a young guy showed how his father's Mk III GP boots behaved exactly the same way. He said they'd been issued, worn and put away in an unheated shed. Did the glue fail over time due to high heat? Dunno. But if you want to have those boots in the decades-long rotation cycle of footwear, go try them on and walk around a little.
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All Mk I-III style boots were vulcanised rubber construction rather than traditionally glued (if not stitched). It was not uncommon for separation of the upper from the rubber to split open for a variety of reasons, including if the rubber hardened over time/exposure to the elements, if the leather was treated with various water repellents like silicone or mink oil that break down the integrity of the leather, etc.

Sometimes it was just the nature of it since there wasn't much leather overlap and lack of a surface contact area of the upper leather.
 
hondroid said:
These USMC Belleville and the CAF MKIV GP boot (and the Cold, Wet Weather boot) have the same vibram soles right down to the pattern. The USMC boots aren’t any better in 5c or below temperatures in terms of sole grip on slippery surfaces.
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MapleSugar said:
Thanks for the info!

I take it that they suck then?

FWIW, I wouldn't be wearing them in cold temperatures. More like moderate to hot weather.
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Those Bellevilles were/are a decent budget option boot that have been offered over decades (originally with a stitch welted construction and at least in the last 2 decades as glued but with a replaceable outsole). There's nothing fancy about them but nothing inherently wrong with them as a floppy duty boot that isn't particularly specialised for any use or terrain.

The Sierra outsole is/was ubiquitous but generally gets clogged in most temperate climate terrains. It should be noted that just about every outsole Vibram (and other companies) offer are available in different compounds.

Eg The WWB was originally issued with a harder compound as it was believed it should be used for cold/wet conditions of autumn/spring, but not winter. It turned into ice pucks at any sign of southern Canadian winter. There was a mass resoling programme (~2010 IIRC) that was conducted such that all outsoles were replaced with a softer compound but the same antiquated Sierra outsole. However, the entire boot was dropped shortly after.

As previously mentioned, for normal duty wear, the idea is to provide troops with the ability to order a selection of quality boots directly through Logistik Unicorp. However, there will be separate specialised/environmental footwear available for issue through clothing stores. Also, those with specialist qualifications also have their own entitlements as well.
 
Striker said:
the greb ones are why my back is ####ed. I actually liked the garrison boots for the simple fact they were easy to get a really good shine on.
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I’m old enough to remember the pebbled black ankle boots you used a hot spoon to smooth out for parade. Not wide enough and painful. Good foot wear that is sized for me is worth the extra it cost. The damage lasts long.
 
Winz said:
Those Bellevilles were/are a decent budget option boot that have been offered over decades (originally with a stitch welted construction and at least in the last 2 decades as glued but with a replaceable outsole). There's nothing fancy about them but nothing inherently wrong with them as a floppy duty boot that isn't particularly specialised for any use or terrain.

The Sierra outsole is/was ubiquitous but generally gets clogged in most temperate climate terrains. It should be noted that just about every outsole Vibram (and other companies) offer are available in different compounds.

Eg The WWB was originally issued with a harder compound as it was believed it should be used for cold/wet conditions of autumn/spring, but not winter. It turned into ice pucks at any sign of southern Canadian winter. There was a mass resoling programme (~2010 IIRC) that was conducted such that all outsoles were replaced with a softer compound but the same antiquated Sierra outsole. However, the entire boot was dropped shortly after.

As previously mentioned, for normal duty wear, the idea is to provide troops with the ability to order a selection of quality boots directly through Logistik Unicorp. However, there will be separate specialised/environmental footwear available for issue through clothing stores. Also, those with specialist qualifications also have their own entitlements as well.
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Thanks!

BTW, what is the best outsole for rugged bush use?

I'm looking for a boot that can take a beating, but is still comfortable.
 
^^ Redwings make a great boot - Wore them at work on the crews for years - Still have them.

At one time in the CF the Danners (Fort Lewis) boots were considered the cream of the combat boots favored by both Canadian and American servicemen - don't know if that's still the case. They are lined with Gortex and excellent for colder wet weather.

My CF hunting buddy bought a pair and swore by them so I also bought a pair for hunting and they are outstanding. I only use them for hunting as I don't want to wear them out unnecessarily (still hunt in them). At the time (80s) they were a 300 dollar touch (big money).
 
MapleSugar said:
Thanks, Dan!

Do you remember the model?
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Sorry, no. I do know they don't make them anymore, last time I had them resoled the guy at the local RW store was surprised to see someone still wearing them. Eventually the steel toes started bursting out of the toe of the boot, and they weren't acceptable for anymore. Shame too, the replacements I bought were not nearly as comfortable. - dan
 
The CF has always screwed up boots. The old Greb boots were garbage and fell apart after minimal use, especially the soles, as previously mentioned in the thread. The replacements from Prospector were even worse as they were already poorly sized (we had to wear the new issued socks that were much too bulky to be sized for what the civi stores clerk felt we should wear) and the fabric and leather would stretch significantly when they got wet and the lining would separate from the outside layer. The original canvas and leather jungle boots were quite good for the simplicity. I still have and use mine that were issued in 1993. They have taken a beating over the years but are still reliable. The all black, nylon upper that replaced the green canvas were terrible as the seams would tear within the first day of wear. We also had a desert boot, same as the Yanks, and although they appeared similar to the jungle boot, were very different. Too much flex in the ankles and lots of injuries, but they were light and breathable.

I like the concept of having the troops source their own boots however the reimbursement is limited. Troops cant really afford to buy themselves good boots considering a good combat boot runs $400 to $600, resulting in lots of cheap boots like Rocky, Salomon, Hi-Tec, and Bellevilles.

I had Danner Acadia and Ft.Lewis during my time in but was constantly hounded by the RSMs and other fun-cops for "non issued kit". I had these boots before I joined the CF as I used them for hunting. My infantry days are long since gone but knowing what I do about boots now, and if I were to do it all over again, the Lowa combat boots based on the Tibets would be my first choice as a general purpose field boot, something from the Zephyr line for garrison, and the Desert Elites for hot weather and unpleasant deployments. I love the brown Combat boot Lowa made for the German forces and bought two pairs for hunting. Altbergs from the UK would be another great choice and I really like their jungle boots but this brand is not readily available in North America. Unfortunately the average soldier is not likely able to drop $500 on a set of boots.
 
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MapleSugar said:
Thanks!

BTW, what is the best outsole for rugged bush use?

I'm looking for a boot that can take a beating, but is still comfortable.
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There is no good answer to this question. As with just about everything in life, it is about figuring out your priorities and accepting compromises. Consider and answer for yourself the following:

-What kind of bush?
-What kind of climate and season(s)?
-What kind of terrain surfaces?
-What kind of loads to carry? What kind of system weight to bear?
-What kind of physical condition are you in? Support needs?
-Speed of advance?

An outsole is just a portion of the overall boot. Apart from compound and tread pattern it must work with the rest of the construction of the footwear and for the specific purpose of one's set criteria.

I don't believe in all-season (err no-season) tires, and I don't believe in 'universal' outsoles. In fact, I've been known to customise outsole patterns, ie cutting/shaving lugs on outsoles and even hybridising them for various terrains/activities.
 
Duncan Idaho said:
The CF has always screwed up boots. The old Greb boots were garbage and fell apart after minimal use, especially the soles, as previously mentioned in the thread. The replacements from Prospector were even worse as they were already poorly sized and would the fabric and leather would stretch significantly when they got wet and the lining would separate from the outside layer. The original canvas and leather jungle boots were quite good for the simplicity. I still have and use mine that were issued in 1993. They have taken a beating over the years but are still reliable. The all black, nylon upper that replaced the green canvas were terrible as the seams would tear within the first day of wear. We also had a desert boot, same as the Yanks, and although they appeared similar to the jungle boot, were very different. Too much flex in the ankles and lots of injuries, but they were light and breathable.

I like the concept of having the troops source their own boots however the reimbursement is limited. Troops cant really afford to buy themselves good boots considering a good combat boot runs $400 to $600, resulting in lots of cheap boots like Rocky, Salomon, Hi-Tec, and Bellevilles.

I had Danner Acadia and Ft.Lewis during my time in but was constantly hounded by the RSMs and other fun-cops for "non issued kit". I had these boots before I joined the CF as I used them for hunting. My infantry days are long since gone but knowing what I do about boots now, and if I were to do it all over again, the Lowa combat boots based on the Tibets would be my first choice as a general purpose field boot, something from the Zephyr line for garrison, and the Desert Elites for hot weather and unpleasant deployments. I love the brown Combat boot Lowa made for the German forces and bought two pairs for hunting. Altbergs from the UK would be another great choice and I really like their jungle boots but this brand is not readily available in North America. Unfortunately the average soldier is not likely able to drop $500 on a set of boots.
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I'll add to Duncan Idaho's comment that indeed solid higher end footwear may easily exceed the original $340 reimbursement nowadays. It should be noted that troops can still purchase whatever they want currently but may only receive partial reimbursement if they exceed the limit.

This is the reason why CANEX was brought into the picture for the interim and the single Altberg offering is priced to meet/stay within that limit. Of course if one chooses to order directly from the UK for other models, there are likely other costs (shipping and customs duties) that may or may not exceed the limit. Similarly, various Canadian suppliers also price common offerings from Lowa and HanWag accordingly.

Unfortunately, there is no resoling reimbursement for those purchasing quality boots that can otherwise have a long service life. This tends to lead troops to by cheaper boots that stay within the limit and replace them more regularly. Boots like the Lowa Zepher line and even Renegades have their place but they are largely meant to be worn and thrown away.

Hopefully, the Logistik Unicorp service will be able to offer a wide enough variety of quality ones and benefit from economy of scale in sourcing good boots for most troops. Arguably, the majority troops do not need overly technical boots but those in specialised roles will likely have to incur some costs as individual professional soldier investment, just like any other gear from gloves to slings, rigs, holsters, etc.
 
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