Canadian Armys "Interm Pistol Program"

[Travis Bickle]

Not fair, or accurate.

The procurement system is beyond broken. More funding is needed for small arms replacement. CC has been designated as the small arms provider by the ###.

None of that is their fault.

Diemaco made significant improvements to the M16 thst were adopted by Colt. They make excellent, world class weapons. The folks there do great work churning out great product and should be commended for their efforts. The cussed up procurement process isn't their doing.

Edit - cussing amazing that G o C is censored here. What a brave new world we live in. Worse censorship than Facebook.

I'm not down playing colts ability to improve or clone rifles that have already been designed.
And yes they do these products well.

We're talking about creating a new handgun from scratch because reason whatever though.
Meanwhile myself and other comrades are stuck with dilapidated, outdated and frighteningly unreliable sidearms.

The point is we already buy sigs by the crate to supply sof and every MP in canada. So buy 5 pallets of crates as the "interim" solution so we have a handgun that works for the 10 years it will take Colt to design a hangun from scratch that may or may not even be a good product.

 

[gwhysow]

Public sector procurement is an absolute nightmare, and that's when you're talking a few hundred thousand, to a couple million dollars. Now, bump up those number or factor is the political climate - ugly. The worst part is the red tape within gov defense. Never had the pleasure, but I've heard that their timelines trump just about every other gov sector procurements.

That said, they'll probably wait until the HPs are no longer requested by soldiers, let them go a few years without them, and then state that they're no longer needed. That'll look good on someone's general ledger I'm sure.

 

[Ottawa]

Hewlet Packard made off with 100 million+ of DND money, we let them.

 

[gwhysow]

Can't hate the player...

I should clarify. HP, not the guy who falsified.

 

[Ottawa]

Just curious, have you been there ?

There has never been "training ex" overthere and seeing that it is a 2006 video, I can garantee you that its a live fire 2 ways range.

Afghanistan was a big cat&mouse game. Sometimes we got to be the cat (offensive ops) and sometimes we got to be the mouse (day to day patrols)

We captured some footage of contacts filmed by them and compared it to ours from the same contact... The only difference was language and equipment. A lot of people only fired in general directions without ever seeing an actual target. The opponents had similar experience and only saw us enough to take a few shots to see us disapear to try to flank them.

Good times !

I shot the afghan war, the camera is wide angle and the troops see the tangos but the camera doesn't, they engage at 300m or more. Unless you have been in combat and no I don't mean like some base rat at KAF or POGs I mean in the shiite then you have no frame of reference Donnie. only 1% of US forces went outside the wire, of those 1/3rd saw action. I had a whole mag of 762 shot at me and grenaded, never saw Terry or his pervert brothers.

 

[flashman2]

yes it is, last time I checked, we lost in Afghanistan.

You should check again. Or stick to talking about things you have any knowledge of.

 

[flashman2]

Just curious, was that a training exercise ? I didn't see any bad guys or return fire. That seems to be the norm in most encounters shown on You Tube.

You've got to be kidding, right? It says "dawn raid on Taliban compound" right at the beginning.

Contrary to the movies and popular belief, identifying the enemy and locating the source of fire is the hardest part of infantry battle drill.

But no, that was not a training exercise.

 

[flashman2]

I'm not down playing colts ability to improve or clone rifles that have already been designed.
And yes they do these products well.

We're talking about creating a new handgun from scratch because reason whatever though.
Meanwhile myself and other comrades are stuck with dilapidated, outdated and frighteningly unreliable sidearms.

The point is we already buy sigs by the crate to supply sof and every MP in canada. So buy 5 pallets of crates as the "interim" solution so we have a handgun that works for the 10 years it will take Colt to design a hangun from scratch that may or may not even be a good product.

I may be mistaken here but I understand CC designing from scratch isn't even on the table. The tender calls for designs to be turned over to CC for production. I suppose CC could submit a design of their own but afaik that's not even on the horizon.

 

[CZ85Combat]

I may be mistaken here but I understand CC designing from scratch isn't even on the table. The tender calls for designs to be turned over to CC for production. I suppose CC could submit a design of their own but afaik that's not even on the horizon.

In the previous fiasco attempt, the pistol had to already been in service by a NATO country.

 

[bellero]

You should check again. Or stick to talking about things you have any knowledge of.

25 years in and four tours, keep talking leg.

 

[flashman2]

I heard that CC was in the progress of actually developing a pistol that correspond to DND list of requirements.
That was because DND wanted something build exclusively and totally in country.

DND couldn't give two flying ####s if the pistol was built in country. I'm very sure if it was up to DND, the G17s we bought to replace the BHP would be on their second rebuild already.

The requirement to have the pistol built in Canada is the result of government policy waaaaaaay above DNDs pay grade.

I haven't heard of CC developing anything themselves, nor does that really make much sense. They know with 100% certainty they will get the contract to produce the pistols, so why go to the trouble of sinking R&D costs into something when it's not necessary?

 

[flashman2]

25 years in and four tours, keep talking leg.

Good for you tough guy. Then your ignorance is even more surprising. Please provide evidence the Canadian Army "lost" in Afghanistan. Four tours counting socks doesn't count.

 

[flashman2]

In the previous fiasco attempt, the pistol had to already been in service by a NATO country.

Ah yes, that too of course.

 

[bellero]

If you call Canada's journey in Afghanistan a success story, I suggest you take another hard look at it.


The war in Afghanistan (2001-2014) was Canada's longest war and its first significant combat engagement since the Korean War. After the 2001 terror attacks on the United States, Canada joined an international coalition to destroy the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban regime that sheltered it in Afghanistan. More than 40,000 Canadian Armed Forces members served in the 12-year campaign. The war killed 165 Canadians —158 soldiers and seven civilians. Although the Taliban were removed from power and the al-Qaeda network was disrupted, Canada and its allies failed to destroy either group, or to secure and stabilize Afghanistan.

Maj Gen Tim Grant, CEFCOM

https://www.opencanada.org/features/stories-kandahar-afghan-province-canada-left-behind/

https://globalnews.ca/news/867154/canada-lost-afghan-war-says-author/

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/glavin-admit-it-weve-lost-afghanistan

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...money-for-afghanistan-wasted-us-agency-finds/

 

[Dick Proenneke]

Bellero, can we just talk about the ####ty pistol procurement process and not rag on our troops? Thanks.

 

[flashman2]

If you call Canada's journey in Afghanistan a success story, I suggest you take another hard look at it.

Except that I didn't say that. You need to read better.

Thanks for the copy pasta. Why is it attributed to Tim Grant? Not that I much care, he's a complete #### hole, but that's not from him.

Funny you post the article quoting from Graeme. I know him quite well, we still speak once in a while. You're grossly misunderstanding his quote.

 

[flashman2]

If I had to guess, we're dealing with a bitter ex 20 year corporal who hates the institution for not recognizing his genius and promoting him to run the show, or who is bitter about spending a career in Germany and it all butt hurt that he missed out on the only significant war in 50 years.

 

[gwhysow]

Soooo...do you guys like...guns?

 

[flashman2]

Soooo...do you guys like...guns?

No. I work for PSPC and I not only hate guns, I hate troops so much I'm doing my best to ensure they never get a viable replacement for the Browning. If it was up to me those useless relish suit fillers would still have flintlocks, and be grateful for it!

 

[DT741]

Well good for you Mister... While you were strolling around with your wide angle camera. Don't act like you've "been there done that" because you took pictures in a conflict. You shot pictures in Afghanistan ? That's cute, I shot my rifle and spent 17 months outside the wire out of the 18 month I spent there living .

You can go around yapping your mouth about "being in Afghanistan" around your little circle in Ottawa, but reality check here pal: you're not a soldier!

PS: calling people kaffites and pogs are a thing reserved to those who actually serve/served. You calling our support troops, our backbones, is highly disrespectul to the men and women who actually got us supplies in the most advanced outpost of Panjwaii all the way down to Mushan...


PS2: thought you were out of CGN ? Needed some 2019 attention ?

I shot the afghan war, the camera is wide angle and the troops see the tangos but the camera doesn't, they engage at 300m or more. Unless you have been in combat and no I don't mean like some base rat at KAF or POGs I mean in the shiite then you have no frame of reference Donnie. only 1% of US forces went outside the wire, of those 1/3rd saw action. I had a whole mag of 762 shot at me and grenaded, never saw Terry or his pervert brothers.