Canadian Armys "Interm Pistol Program"

[flashman2]

^ aw cuss, thanks dude. I couldn't be arsed, but I'm sure glad you were. Perfectly said.

Funny enough, I know a guy who was BOTH a soldier and photog for CP. He went over embedded as a photog, and took a pretty neato pic of an IED going off in front of him. Somehow he gets by without sounding like he's Gunny Highway.

I'd love to see how our photog holds up waiting for the kaboom driving an HL down into Panjwaii for six months to bring guys in the field all the junk they need. Or how well our photographer would stand up running a TOC at KAF, having to try to do their best to help out their buddies in the field and listen to all the nine liners and coordinating the casevacs, knowing it was your comrades out there and you were almost powerless to help them. Or how he'd hold up as a KAF rat maintainer who's job it was to unload the bodies from IED'd vehicles and strip the serialized kit out of a LAV hull painted inside with blood and gore that had been marinating in the Afghan heat for a few days. It's not like the bodies and ammo and rockets and radios and weapons all get out by ####ing magic. Or how he'd like being a postie on KAF who had to clean and rewrap Christmas parcels because the first guy trying to deliver them out to the field is splattered all over them. Or how he'd like being the weapons tech who's job it was to clean rifles recovered from the battlefield which were filthy with blood and bits of other Canadians on them, some who you'd served with for decades.

All of those things are real examples. There's way more I could think of too. I did not for a second envy the jobs the guys back on KAF had to do.

 

[OkayShooter]

I shot the afghan war, the camera is wide angle and the troops see the tangos but the camera doesn't, they engage at 300m or more. Unless you have been in combat and no I don't mean like some base rat at KAF or POGs I mean in the shiite then you have no frame of reference Donnie. only 1% of US forces went outside the wire, of those 1/3rd saw action. I had a whole mag of 762 shot at me and grenaded, never saw Terry or his pervert brothers.

LOL A civilian calling someone a POG? You didn't serve, you were not a grunt. Hey Ottawa that makes YOU A POG.

 

[flashman2]

LOL A civilian calling someone a POG? You didn't serve, you were not a grunt. Hey Ottawa that makes YOU A POG.

Don't you have to be a soldier to be a POG? I think it otherwise would make one a slack jawed, flat faced civvy Walter Mitty? Theoretically speaking?

Boy, you gotta love the service though. We'll eat our own and poop out the furry bits, but as soon as an outsider tries to get in on it it's one solid wall of hate

 

[OkayShooter]

Don't you have to be a soldier to be a POG? I think it otherwise would make him a slack jawed, flat faced civvy Walter Mitty? Theoretically speaking?

Boy, you gotta love the service though. We'll eat our own and pop out the furry bits, but as soon as an outsider tries to get in on it it's one solid wall of hate

Yes. POG = Person other than grunt. A civilian camera man, isn't serving, isn't infantry and or combat arms. Nor even eligible to use the term. Just makes him a poser and pathetic cry for attention.

 

[bobdbldr]

A bad idea that gonna cost a lot more than buying something that's already been tested.

As much as I would love to have a Glock issued to me, ffs, we have Sig Sauers in our system, lets just get more !

Makes complete sense, much easier to get kickbacks and give out subcontracts to political supporters if everything is in country, cost is not a factor, they will sell it as buying Canadian and quality costs, etc. Doesn't make sense to go with a proven design that has seen hard service and can be had at a reasonable price!

 

[OkayShooter]

I shot the afghan war, the camera is wide angle and the troops see the tangos but the camera doesn't, they engage at 300m or more. Unless you have been in combat and no I don't mean like some base rat at KAF or POGs I mean in the shiite then you have no frame of reference Donnie. only 1% of US forces went outside the wire, of those 1/3rd saw action. I had a whole mag of 762 shot at me and grenaded, never saw Terry or his pervert brothers.

Guess you are waiting for people to thank you for your service?

And Tim Horton workers nearly got rocketed every day.

 

[calvin in keoma]

If the new pistol has to be made in Canada, I suggest we put the factory in Acme Alberta. We could call the factory "The Acme Weapons Company", and the handguns could come in crates like this;

 

[flashman2]

Guess you are waiting for people to thank you for your service?

And Tim Horton workers nearly got rocketed every day.

I need some marshmallows if we're having a roast...

 

[flashman2]

If the new pistol has to be made in Canada, I suggest we put the factory in Acme Alberta. We could call the factory "The Acme Weapons Company", and the handguns could come in crates like this;

Lolololololololol

Worse than that though... it has to be made at CC, so some other company has to be willing to send their Glock TDPs to a competitor.

I like your idea better.

 

[r34skyline]

Well #### this went sideways hard.

This is just a rumor folks.

As for this POG dealio I've always wondered. Assaulters can come from any trade without a mos change, so if a supply guy goes through selection and does soa is he still a pog?

 

[GuiltySpark]

I shot the afghan war, the camera is wide angle and the troops see the tangos but the camera doesn't, they engage at 300m or more. Unless you have been in combat and no I don't mean like some base rat at KAF or POGs I mean in the shiite then you have no frame of reference Donnie. only 1% of US forces went outside the wire, of those 1/3rd saw action. I had a whole mag of 762 shot at me and grenaded, never saw Terry or his pervert brothers.

The older I get the more I'm embarrassed by people with your attitude.

The guys who feel the need to make fun of non-combat arms trades are the ones who not only are incredibly insecure but also the ones in my experience that lie and bull#### about their own exploits. It takes about half a brain to quickly realize how important and vital those trades are to fighting a war.

How often do you bring up Afghanistan? Once or twice a month? Couple times a week? Get over yourself and your wide angle camera dude.

 

[Stoner99]

I think we should do a wish list here on what the CF should buy as a general duty pistol. Clearly they will make the wrong choice either way.

 

[flashman2]

Well #### this went sideways hard.

This is just a rumor folks.

As for this POG dealio I've always wondered. Assaulters can come from any trade without a mos change, so if a supply guy goes through selection and does soa is he still a pog?

Is he a grunt then?

Edit - and yes, there is an MOSID change, 00369 is Special Forces Operator.

 

[flashman2]

I think we should do a wish list here on what the CF should buy as a general duty pistol. Clearly they will make the wrong choice either way.

There's no wishlist. G17. /procurement.

 

[r34skyline]

Is he a grunt then?

That's what I'm asking. Technically by mos he isn't. But he is now the tip of the spear so he is?

Edit to your edit. Thats csor operator. Completely different trade, different selection, different basic course.

As for the wish list. A hk of any sort would be my choice. Realistically I'm guessing a glock 17. Logistically a sig 226 would be the easy choice.

 

[OkayShooter]

I think we should do a wish list here on what the CF should buy as a general duty pistol. Clearly they will make the wrong choice either way.

They wouldn't listen to us anyways. Will be decided by someone that won't use it and been pushing paper for 15 years. Like who ever decided design and adopt a non modular 4 mag tac vest. Then give you 10 mags over seas. Goodbye other pockets for mags.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

All I was wondering was if anyone knew anything about the program...

 

[Stoner99]

They wouldn't listen to us anyways. Will be decided by someone that won't use it and been pushing paper for 15 years. Like who ever decided design and adopt a non modular 4 mag tac vest. Then give you 10 mags over seas. Goodbye other pockets for mags.

Yes I was in when that whole thing was going down. When we were issued the vests the disappointment set in. What a joke. They did have a nice chemical smell to them though. CADPAT sucks too lol. To be honest Olive drab was fine. In fact the old webbing formula was more useful.

My choices, no particular order

1. M9A3 it will last till WW4
2. SIG 229/226 whatever
3. Steyr M9A1 over any Glock
4. HK USP line latest version
5. Glock 17/19

All made to hold up specifically to Canadian criteria. Example Artic etc.


What will happen. It’s already been posted, so at least we get too laugh at the train wreck.

 

[flashman2]

They wouldn't listen to us anyways. Will be decided by someone that won't use it and been pushing paper for 15 years. Like who ever decided design and adopt a non modular 4 mag tac vest. Then give you 10 mags over seas. Goodbye other pockets for mags.

To be fair, that's not quite how it works.

Very smart people at DRDC put lots of effort into determining end user requirements, based on listening to that exact audience and conducting many many working groups. They do all sorts of trials to validate. I used to be at a unit across from a DRDC detachment and would go in all the time to help them out with experiments and trials. They were all civvy nerds who were genuinely concerned with figuring out what the warfighter needed and getting it to them. If it was up to just them, soldiers sailors and aircrew would get exactly what they need. The DLR staff are all army guys who have been there and done that.

The problem is that those wishlists get filtered though the government procurement process and tempered by political reality. The DRDC and Army folks that write the requirements are mostly good sensible people. I've met a few who were protectionist and imperious, but they were the minority.

The Tac Vest is an amazing bit of kit. It's bombproof. It's exceptionally well made.

It's just unsuited to the role it had to fulfill in the first war we used it in.

It's PERFECT for standing gate guard in Bosnia or driving a truck. It's actually ok for most people who don't have a dismounted F Echelon job. It's a great product for the 90% job we did when it was conceived and the end user requirements were determined. The tac vest can still carry more than webbing can...

Webbing still has it's place. Chest rigs have their place. Vests have their place. The challenge is a one size fits all solution. In some respects, 37 pattern did that better. Easy enough to throw on a few more bandoleers of ammo. Unfortunately we don't get loaded mags issued in bandoleers.

 

[flashman2]

All I was wondering was if anyone knew anything about the program...

Welcome to CGN.