Canadian Armys "Interm Pistol Program"

aakoksal said:
No single country lost, but the whole western coalition failed... And that should not come as a suprise to anybody, considering that is what the US does best. Taliban is still there, civilians lost their lives, family members, house, etc... Afganistan is not in a better shape...
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Bingo.
 
Also, I said if Colt Canada is going to make the new pistol. If we were going to buy off the shelf, my suggestions would be:
226
USP9 V1
Steyr L9A1
320
 
This thread makes the army sound fun! /sarcasm

Leave it to the government to bungle something as simple as sending out an RFQ for *insert pistol here* x *insert number here* to Glock/Sig/HK, etc

This seems like something that could be accomplished with relative speed and ease.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
I few weeks ago there was an article in several news outlets about the CAFs Hi power pistols. The gist is they are old and need replacement. One thing I found surprising was the article stated that the Army is apparently doing a In-term Pistol Program as a "temporary" measure until an official replacement is selected.

Anyone know anything about this program? It was the first I have heard about it. I would be curious to the expected time lines for delivery. Also to the rumors to what the army might choose.
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The CAF does like to buy obsolete gear from the US when they are finished with it.
 
ok keep it on topic

unfortunately I work in procurement so I deal with the pain of talking to PSPC on a regular basis.


My plan IF I was allowed to replace the pistols would be simple

Get 10 pistols from each of our NATO allies (except Portugal and Greece, they are using pistols as old as we are, and any other country that's using crap Hungary, Romania.... :) )

then proceed to test them to destruction :) get some weapons techs in there to tear them apart when they fail.

not take the top 3 preforming pistols, get 200 of each, troop trials, shoot them a lot.... 40 pistols of each type to each of the CMBGs and 40 to CSOR the last 40 of each type can be split between the Airforce and Navy.

and this should sort out an acceptable pistol. and should be completed in about 1 year. Then just buy a #### load


but I'm not in charge :)
 
woodchopper said:
ok keep it on topic

unfortunately I work in procurement so I deal with the pain of talking to PSPC on a regular basis.


My plan IF I was allowed to replace the pistols would be simple

Get 10 pistols from each of our NATO allies (except Portugal and Greece, they are using pistols as old as we are, and any other country that's using crap Hungary, Romania.... :) )

then proceed to test them to destruction :) get some weapons techs in there to tear them apart when they fail.

not take the top 3 preforming pistols, get 200 of each, troop trials, shoot them a lot.... 40 pistols of each type to each of the CMBGs and 40 to CSOR the last 40 of each type can be split between the Airforce and Navy.

and this should sort out an acceptable pistol. and should be completed in about 1 year. Then just buy a #### load


but I'm not in charge :)
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OK, now your just blabbing nonsense, stop trying to use logic and experience to provide a sensible approach. Jibberjabber I say!
 
rkm456 said:
Psst...

the replacement is going to be the 320.
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This! The work has already been completed ie testing. The guns would be made in the US so we get defense spending offsets from the US which gets around the Make it in Canada nonsense. The big advantage is the gun comes in about every variation anyone would need.

Take Care

Bob
 
flashman2 said:
Here's the rub though: on a tour when it was an absolute free for all in terms of fighting order, the VAST majority of soldiers still chose to use the Tac Vest. Including a lot of "gun" guys. I'm personally not a fan of the TV, I didn't use it on tour, but I'm also not about to tell a few hundred soldiers who used it during the most intense combat operations in Afghanistan that they made the wrong choice. Heck, even most PPCLI guys wore it... If it was as utterly, indisputably terrible as it's portrayed to be here, that wouldn't be the case. Having a pile of money and the freedom to buy pretty much whatever you want is as close to a true democratic vote on the TV as you could get, and most guys still used it.

Unfortunately the design was a bit too early. Had it been designed even a few years later, safe to say we would have gone with a MOLLE solution.
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Missed this earlier. As a matter of closure on the topic, my experience on 03-06 (including op Medusal and 03-08 was different.

True some guys didn't give a #### what they wore for a vest and they're the same ones that are happy with with issues boots, issues BEWs, issued small pack, issues c79 scope and rucksack etc.. Seen some dudes with 82 pattern webbing.

Some guys won't spend a dollar on aftermarket kit, let alone $500 for a nice rig.

Not everyone had an absolute free for all. Some platoons or companies had chains of command that would force them to wear the tacvest. Sometimes soldiers had to transfer items from their chest rig to their tacvest when going into kaf so they wouldn't be caught with aftermarket rigs.

You've always championed the tacvest and that's your business.
I'd happily tell those few hundred soldiers they made a dumb decision. Tacvest is a one size fits all solution in a modular world.

Hell I'm sure some people deployed swear by the browning along with their tacvest. I'll pass.
 
Gen 5 Glock 17s and 19s would be a quick and simple solution.

Glocks different sized back strap can accommodate different shooters in accordance with our mandatory-to-deploy GBA+ raining. That way women can shoot it more comfortably.

Mags are cheap but good quality. Lots of spare parts. Lots of holster options. Very robust and reliable.
 
GuiltySpark said:
Missed this earlier. As a matter of closure on the topic, my experience on 03-06 (including op Medusal and 03-08 was different.

True some guys didn't give a #### what they wore for a vest and they're the same ones that are happy with with issues boots, issues BEWs, issued small pack, issues c79 scope and rucksack etc.. Seen some dudes with 82 pattern webbing.

Some guys won't spend a dollar on aftermarket kit, let alone $500 for a nice rig.
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Sure, that's exactly my point. Most guys find the issued gear perfectly sufficient.

And I don't recall seeing any platoon let alone company where soldiers weren't wearing aftermarket stuff. Maybe it happened, but I can say with absolute certainty it didn't come from the CO or RSM (RIP), both of them couldn't have given a ####. Indeed they led the charge on buying some aftermarket kit for the recce and sniper guys. I remember having a lunch with the DCO where all we did was talk about buying Kifaru rucks. I saw the CO and RSM at least every other week and neither of them cared in the slightest about all the non issue stuff my guys and I were rocking.
 
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woodchopper said:
ok keep it on topic

unfortunately I work in procurement so I deal with the pain of talking to PSPC on a regular basis.


My plan IF I was allowed to replace the pistols would be simple

Get 10 pistols from each of our NATO allies (except Portugal and Greece, they are using pistols as old as we are, and any other country that's using crap Hungary, Romania.... :) )

then proceed to test them to destruction :) get some weapons techs in there to tear them apart when they fail.

not take the top 3 preforming pistols, get 200 of each, troop trials, shoot them a lot.... 40 pistols of each type to each of the CMBGs and 40 to CSOR the last 40 of each type can be split between the Airforce and Navy.

and this should sort out an acceptable pistol. and should be completed in about 1 year. Then just buy a #### load


but I'm not in charge :)
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I got a simpler plan.

Buy G17s.

There's literally nothing we would learn by trialing them. Their service life and maintenance demands are perfectly well known. All you need to do is get the information from the piles of militaries and police services that use them. Shooting a G17 to destruction would take over two years at 200 rounds a day, every working day of the year.

Wpns techs aren't even close to being qualified to conduct failure analysis.
 
flashman2 said:
Sure, that's exactly my point. Most guys find the issued gear perfectly sufficient.
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And there is 2 classes to those people:

- too cheap to care

- don't spend enough time actually doing their job with this sub-standard gear we get issued. This class usually don't know better and are quick to call those who like quality working gear "jo kit" or "joe cool" or any reference to the occult world of special operation, but then they try it and are usually saying stuff like "why dont we get this issued"

It was hilarious seeing the second group trying to jam 10 magazines in the issued tacvest and play Tetris stuffing the patrol pack with minimal gear and having to unpack everything when they wanted to get something. Ever witness a poor soul trying to fish out a grenade out of the issued tacvest designated "grenade pouch" or a machine gunner dislocating a shoulder trying to get a fresh 200rds drum while under contact ?

I have done and witnessed both and a lot more which makes me and a lot of people say that the TacVest is at best a peacekeeping fishing vest that is suitable for those who need to carry stuff with no intention to use it as its not part of their main job description.
 
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