Canadian Cadet Rifle Question

M

Mansfield837

New member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Location
Ontario
Hello All,
As Ive hit a dead end fairly quickly I'll go to the encyclopedia gun nutz for help.
My son will be transitioning out of Canadian Army Cadet Air Rifle and into Full Bore shooting in the next year and I was looking to add a "C11" to my safe for him to get a leg up on the competition. Problem lies in that it appears the rifle used by the RCAAC Cadet program, the C11, a single shot bolt action .223 made by Diemaco is only available to the Canadian Forces and its Cadet program. My question , Is the rifle unavailable to the public? and if that is the case what would be the closest substitute in .223. According to wiki the C11 is based off the Anschütz Model 6522. (No luck with that search either)
Put your thinking caps on,
Thanks in advance,
Mansfield837
 
http://www.eme421.com/c11.html

Follow the link if you haven't already found it. From what I know based on a discussion with one of the armourers was that the action is in fact Anschutz and the stock was a custom made piece to allow for the free floated barrel.It also has a track for adjustable handstop as well as adjustable butt plate and check rest. If I recall the heavy barrel was made by Diemaco. The sight are target style ladder/diopter rear sight with hooded front sight with adjustable post. They are currently being maintained in typical CF fashion by scavaging parts from NS rifles as there aren't any more new rifles available. The mini bipod is just a built in rest for when the rifle is not in use. They are not unlike many target rifles with the rear sight being somewhat unique.
 
The underlying rifle is an Australian Sportco Model 44, circa 1975. Diemaco used (without permission) a sleeve designed by Saskatoon gunsmith Jim Dougan which makes it easy to rebarrel a Sportco without a lot of fussing. The two models the cadets use are modernized, restocked versions of the same basic action.
 
soldner61 said:
http://www.eme421.com/c11.html

Follow the link if you haven't already found it. From what I know based on a discussion with one of the armourers was that the action is in fact Anschutz and the stock was a custom made piece to allow for the free floated barrel.It also has a track for adjustable handstop as well as adjustable butt plate and check rest. If I recall the heavy barrel was made by Diemaco. The sight are target style ladder/diopter rear sight with hooded front sight with adjustable post. They are currently being maintained in typical CF fashion by scavaging parts from NS rifles as there aren't any more new rifles available. The mini bipod is just a built in rest for when the rifle is not in use. They are not unlike many target rifles with the rear sight being somewhat unique.
Click to expand...

The only thing Anschutz is the sight. The rifle is a Sportco.
 
Looking at the link provided by soldner61, the rear sight looks to be a Central.
To make up a practice training rifle, just about any action could be used. It is a single shot target rifle. A similar stock would be nice, so the rifle would feel the same. The stock looks very much like ones made by Ian Robertson. Most any target rear sight would work.
What kind of range access do you have?
 
tiriaq said:
Looking at the link provided by soldner61, the rear sight looks to be a Central.
To make up a practice training rifle, just about any action could be used. It is a single shot target rifle. A similar stock would be nice, so the rifle would feel the same. The stock looks very much like ones made by Ian Robertson. Most any target rear sight would work.
What kind of range access do you have?
Click to expand...

Private out to 700 yds and 180 at the club.
Thanks all for the input and suggestions.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The underlying rifle is an Australian Sportco Model 44, circa 1975. Diemaco used (without permission) a sleeve designed by Saskatoon gunsmith Jim Dougan which makes it easy to rebarrel a Sportco without a lot of fussing. The two models the cadets use are modernized, restocked versions of the same basic action.
Click to expand...

The sleeve looks like a simple adapter. Did the Saskatoon gunsmith have a patent, or is the "without permission" just a little bit of CGN speculation?

The stock is McMillan, and the new barrels are Kreiger stainless barrels. The project was to update and renew the cadet rifle program without getting funding for entirely new rifles.
 
The original idea of the barrel adapter was the "Neilson Adapter" which included a recoil lug built in. Nothing to do with JD. I don't know if Diemaco made their own or used Neilsons.
 
I have a Nielson MN300 rifle. The receiver is a two piece assembly, the receiver ring being a separate piece. Basically the adapter collar fitted to a tubular receiver body. Uses a Sportco bolthead.
 
I must add that the Sportco action is nothing to write home about. If you spend the money on a custom rifle using a quality action will not cost much more. You do not want to buy a C11. Just because the army has them does not mean they are any good.
 
Canuck1977 said:
Looks to me like they upgraded to a RPA quad lock

http://www.eme421.com/c12a1_target.html
Click to expand...

This is correct. The Cadets use a RPA Quadlock action, RPA trigger, Krieger barrel and McMillan prone stock with RPA Trakker rear sight. The Cadet National Rifle team has everything the same except the stock. Those rifles were pimped out with a Robertson 'Custom Canadian Leaf' pattern prone stock.
 
Shot the C11 in 2000 in Connaught as a cadet, got hooked up and went for my pal 4 years later when I turned 18.

I was an average shooter but some others got so pretty good scores out to 600yds and ended shooting some DCRA events that summer. The average shooters like me got to do the obstacle course, mock tower, shooting C7 and go to the beach... I knew the I was meant for the Infantry :p
 
Matt K said:
The sleeve looks like a simple adapter. Did the Saskatoon gunsmith have a patent, or is the "without permission" just a little bit of CGN speculation?

The stock is McMillan, and the new barrels are Kreiger stainless barrels. The project was to update and renew the cadet rifle program without getting funding for entirely new rifles.
Click to expand...

Not idle gossip. I knew Jim when he figured out how to make a more workable Neilsen (sp?) adaptor. He presented the idea at a Cadet conference or national level meeting. They said thanks, and within a year or two, DIEMACO had the contract. Jim insists they used his idea. To my knowledge he could not patent the design, because it was a modification of an existing principle. He could have registered the variation with Industry Canada, but like a lot of gunsmiths and tinkerers, was supremely confident in his abilities alone to do the work.
 
So really, you have no direct knowledge of anyone stealing or using anything without permission, or even the specifics of where or when. One of the problems with an anonymous forum. Probably why Stoner never paid me for the rotating bolt idea he stole from me ;)

As it happens, I was at Diemaco back then. DND - specifically the LCMM and the cadet program managers - specified exactly what they wanted done. Diemaco got ALL small arms contracts under the pre-existing consolidated contract and the Munition Supply Program. The engineers and technicians were all good people and worked very hard to ensure the integrity of programs and the quality of work for military projects, even for cadets. These were the kind of people who would be above slanderous anonymous accusations and the kind of mud flinging accusations that bubble up here on CGN all the time. Further, the design specifications are all owned by the crown. Perhaps your friend Jim should have taken his issue up with DND.

I also would agree it would be hard to patent a sleeve that was threaded on one side and also on the other side, or what might be called a threaded adapter, of the same variety in use on any number of historical examples.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom