Canadian Contract 1911s
- Thread starter Kirk1701
- Start date
5000 pistols from the approx. serial range C5400 to C16599. The only major production feature that seems to have changed during that time was the rear sight --- later ones will have the flat rear sight.
You will need a letter from Colt to prove it's a legitimate Canadian Government purchased Colt and not one that was privately sold from the same era.
-Steve
There's a mismatch British used Inglis on the EE at present. I've been eyeing it greedily. The price keeps dropping, so I'm hoping it drops into a range I can afford. My budget is extremely tight.
okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
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okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
No engraving, the barrels were marked P if IIRC (and H?). I will try to get some verso pictures.
Now we all do to!
Aw BLURGH!!!
Strongly agree!
Please leave the original finish as it is - that is history! Re-finishing will hurt the originality AND value of the pistol. It would be crazy to mess with that old Canadian war dog.
I also have one with worn finish also, nothing wrong with it, the officer carried it at Ypres to the end of war, of course it has some bluing loss!
The mint condition examples I posted above did not see much action. A.C. Garner never even fired the pistol because he was rear echelon, and the other pistol belonged to a Surgeon named R.H. McGibbon who was badly wounded evacuating wounded from Ypres at the beginning of the war. The ones with lots of combat history SHOULD have worn bluing!
-Steve
Steve, my Granadfather (may he rest in peace) was in the 2nd Canadian Pioneer Battalion and the Pioneer Battalions were far from rear echelon troops. Have you seen the units war diary?
Hi Garand,
Of course, my Pioneer 1911 has seen lots of documented action!! It's also NOT in mint condition -- all original but the bluing is worn, the barrel has frosting, and wooden grips show wear. But that's what the serious WWI combat vets usually look like!
I was referring the pistols I posted above in the thread, the mint condition examples that belonged to A.C. Garner and R.H. McGibbon.
A.C. Garner was too badly wounded in the Boer War to see frontline service in WWI. He never fired the pistol and it's still in 98%+ unfired condition. Not much *combat* history there, but a mint example how they were issued.
R.H. McGibbon was evacuating wounded at Ypres and was involved in a tragic accident, a direct artillery hit on his ambulance full of wounded soldiers. Everyone killed except him. He was so badly wounded that was the end of his combat service in WWI. As such, his 1911 is also very close to mint condition.
You can read more about these men with just a google search.
Hope that clears up the confusion!! Maybe W.F. Cooke knew of your grandfather, who knows?
-Steve
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Here are the P and J markings found on a correct original barrel for a Canadian Contract 1911:
Also check to make sure the barrel is blued with a polished hood and tip.
Anything else and the barrel has been replaced at some point. Very common to find replacement WWI and WWII USGI barrels in these.
-Steve
Also check to make sure the barrel is blued with a polished hood and tip.
Anything else and the barrel has been replaced at some point. Very common to find replacement WWI and WWII USGI barrels in these.
-Steve
Oh well, here I go again ..... just can't seem to resist posting a picture of mine when one of these threads pops up!
This is what a 1914 Canadian-purchase Colt Government Model pistol in "near new" original condition looks like -
Strictly speaking, if you wanted to have a representational pistol as an example, it should have this gorgeous high-polish fire-blue finish .... The pistols acquired by Canada in 1914 were commercial production ..... definitely not what you would call a "war finish!
Note that I referred to it as a "Government Model" - that is the correct designation for the commercial model which Canada purchased (and is religiously used in Colt Firearms provenance letters regarding these Canadian-purchase pistols.) "Model 1911", strictly speaking, was the US Government military model designation, and thus (when used to describe a pistol of WWI vintage, at least) refers to one produced under government contract for the United States military ....
This is what a 1914 Canadian-purchase Colt Government Model pistol in "near new" original condition looks like -
Strictly speaking, if you wanted to have a representational pistol as an example, it should have this gorgeous high-polish fire-blue finish .... The pistols acquired by Canada in 1914 were commercial production ..... definitely not what you would call a "war finish!
Note that I referred to it as a "Government Model" - that is the correct designation for the commercial model which Canada purchased (and is religiously used in Colt Firearms provenance letters regarding these Canadian-purchase pistols.) "Model 1911", strictly speaking, was the US Government military model designation, and thus (when used to describe a pistol of WWI vintage, at least) refers to one produced under government contract for the United States military ....
okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
Very nice Grant (for the 14th time
); on a more serious note........it amazes me to think that your Government model and mine (see picture on previous post) were shipped together, 99 years ago, probably in the same case, to Europe (well....yours probably stayed in Quebec while mine saw combat) and here they are re-united again on this forum!
On original Colt Government models & condition, etc...
I've only ever seen one nicer than GrantR's. Personally handled it about 4 years ago. A very lovely example in like new condition, considering it's age.
It is C 12,### and likely did not make it further than a steamer trunk during the Great War.
I still don't regret passing on the opportunity to purchase it at the time, although I did have the funds to do so.
It's now in the possession of another CGN'er. Perhaps he will chime in at some point with comment & pics.
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NAA.
I've only ever seen one nicer than GrantR's. Personally handled it about 4 years ago. A very lovely example in like new condition, considering it's age.
It is C 12,### and likely did not make it further than a steamer trunk during the Great War.
I still don't regret passing on the opportunity to purchase it at the time, although I did have the funds to do so.
It's now in the possession of another CGN'er. Perhaps he will chime in at some point with comment & pics.
----------
NAA.
Amazingly enough, my pistol apparently did make it to Europe. It was purchased from the Government as a personal sidearm by Major. William Arthur Mitchell, who served at the Front as Commanding Officer of at least two different Companies of the 2nd Divisional Train, C.E.F.
The pistol itself is unmarked, but the original leather holster is marked (both under the flap and on the belt-loop on the back) -
The provenance of this pistol is that I acquired it directly from a chap who, as a newly commissioned Lieutenant, in 1943 personally purchased it and its original holster from Major Mitchell. Clearly the pistol has seen little use, but it has "been there"....although perhaps "not too close". Here is one page from the 2nd Divisional Train War Diary on which Major Mitchell is twice mentioned - the first (4 July 1916) being a notation - complete with typographic error misspelling his surname - of his assumption of command of No. 5 Company .... having previously commanded No.8 Company. The second (11 July) notes him as having been detailed as President of a General Field Court Martial at Pioneer Battalion. (The notation for 10 July is a very interesting little look at hauling supplies into the front line trenches.)
The pistol itself is unmarked, but the original leather holster is marked (both under the flap and on the belt-loop on the back) -
The provenance of this pistol is that I acquired it directly from a chap who, as a newly commissioned Lieutenant, in 1943 personally purchased it and its original holster from Major Mitchell. Clearly the pistol has seen little use, but it has "been there"....although perhaps "not too close". Here is one page from the 2nd Divisional Train War Diary on which Major Mitchell is twice mentioned - the first (4 July 1916) being a notation - complete with typographic error misspelling his surname - of his assumption of command of No. 5 Company .... having previously commanded No.8 Company. The second (11 July) notes him as having been detailed as President of a General Field Court Martial at Pioneer Battalion. (The notation for 10 July is a very interesting little look at hauling supplies into the front line trenches.)
Hi Grant,
Will you share with us the old photos you took showing the pistol in more detail? You always give us the same shot
I thought when I first saw this one of canadiansoldiers.com is was named (stamped) to the WWII Lt. on the front strap -- or am I thinking just the holster?
-Steve
Will you share with us the old photos you took showing the pistol in more detail? You always give us the same shot
Well .... if you compare them you'll see that there are a few somewhat
different versions of that shot .... I keep showing it because it is my favourite picture .... with the reflection of the overhead tree branches in the slide, and all ..... Also, because the other side of the pistol isn't quite as pristine - just a bit more holster wear and some (GASP!
) little areas of finish damage from being stored in the leather holster. But OK, here is a shot of the left side -
I seem to have "misplaced" many of my other images of this pistol. Hiding in some folder on my hard drive somewhere, I suppose ....
No, the WWII officer's name isn't on the pistol either .... he just stenciled it over the original owner's identification on the underside of the holster flap ....
.... Makes it impossible to get a decent photo of the original printing .... which is a bit faded and rubbed off anyway,although I can make out what it says in good light and under magnification ....
Thanks Grant!! That's another good shot. There's nothing to be ashamed of there, nice to see a little more about it.
I spent hours and hours trying to photograph my Canadian Contract 1911's. No matter how hard I try, I can never get the pictures I want... So tough with these, and trying to capture the smokey blue small parts is a real challenge!!
Photographing a parkerized Colt M1911A1 is so much easier!!!
Here's the rig that came with R.H. McGibbons pistol. This is one of the early leather sets made here in Ottawa and purchased for the CEF. I'm not sure how many exist today, my guess is only a couple? I never saw another set as the leather ones didn't last long in the trenches. They were much less common and popular than the 1914 Mills holsters -- and tougher to authenticate. Less than 1000 were made by two Ottawa leather makers.
As you can see, it would appear the holster has what might be a few small blood stains. I was a little curious about this when I bought the rig, but it all became clear to me:
"RAINING SHELLS AT ST. JEAN ----25 April 1915----
Just as the situation seemed clear, there occurred a heavy casualty. A motor ambulance convoy was standing on the main road opposite the ADS when a heavy caliber shell fell upon the centre of the road close to a car filled with wounded. It wrecked the car, killing sixteen men and wounding twenty. Among these, both seriously wounded, were Major J.L. Duval and Captain R.H. McGibbon, of No. 1 Canadian Field Ambulance. (War Story of The CAMC)
The nightmarish scene must have been extremely chaotic – shells raining down as broken and smashed men lay helpless where their ambulances has stalled or exploded. Debris, scattered equipment, dead horses and men must have been everywhere."
----- http://cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10708&view=previous
This pistol sort of brings a heavy heart for me - it all makes sense. Major Duval died of his wounds and McGibbon was so badly injured the war was over him, and same for his pistol.
I can't even imagine the terror of being in one of these ambulances and taking a direct hit from an artillery round. It looks like these offered about as much protection as a tin can....
The holster like yours is also named inside the flap:
There is a much bigger story behind the McGibbon rig but I am planning on doing an article on these 1911's for CGN on the 100th anniversary.
I have the complete 1914 Mills Gear rig as well as another mysterious Canadian WWII holster with double mag pouch I've never encountered before. I'll try to get some pics done of those as well should anyone be interested in seeing them. The replacement mags marked with the c-broad arrows are also a good accessory for these, although they keep going up in price and getting tougher to find.
-Steve
I spent hours and hours trying to photograph my Canadian Contract 1911's. No matter how hard I try, I can never get the pictures I want... So tough with these, and trying to capture the smokey blue small parts is a real challenge!!
Photographing a parkerized Colt M1911A1 is so much easier!!!
Here's the rig that came with R.H. McGibbons pistol. This is one of the early leather sets made here in Ottawa and purchased for the CEF. I'm not sure how many exist today, my guess is only a couple? I never saw another set as the leather ones didn't last long in the trenches. They were much less common and popular than the 1914 Mills holsters -- and tougher to authenticate. Less than 1000 were made by two Ottawa leather makers.
As you can see, it would appear the holster has what might be a few small blood stains. I was a little curious about this when I bought the rig, but it all became clear to me:
"RAINING SHELLS AT ST. JEAN ----25 April 1915----
Just as the situation seemed clear, there occurred a heavy casualty. A motor ambulance convoy was standing on the main road opposite the ADS when a heavy caliber shell fell upon the centre of the road close to a car filled with wounded. It wrecked the car, killing sixteen men and wounding twenty. Among these, both seriously wounded, were Major J.L. Duval and Captain R.H. McGibbon, of No. 1 Canadian Field Ambulance. (War Story of The CAMC)
The nightmarish scene must have been extremely chaotic – shells raining down as broken and smashed men lay helpless where their ambulances has stalled or exploded. Debris, scattered equipment, dead horses and men must have been everywhere."
----- http://cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10708&view=previous
This pistol sort of brings a heavy heart for me - it all makes sense. Major Duval died of his wounds and McGibbon was so badly injured the war was over him, and same for his pistol.
I can't even imagine the terror of being in one of these ambulances and taking a direct hit from an artillery round. It looks like these offered about as much protection as a tin can....
The holster like yours is also named inside the flap:
There is a much bigger story behind the McGibbon rig but I am planning on doing an article on these 1911's for CGN on the 100th anniversary.
I have the complete 1914 Mills Gear rig as well as another mysterious Canadian WWII holster with double mag pouch I've never encountered before. I'll try to get some pics done of those as well should anyone be interested in seeing them. The replacement mags marked with the c-broad arrows are also a good accessory for these, although they keep going up in price and getting tougher to find.
-Steve
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