Canadian Forces Special Run 1911 - NOT PARA

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Canuckistanman said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but "a legal order" or "task" issued by a superior officer can be refused if it would result in a needless loss of life of those under his command or the lives of non-combatant innocent civilians.
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You are lumping two separate things, each with their own variances, into one sentence and by in large, you are wrong.

A lawful command can not be ignored/refused. Lawful being something that is determined by JAGs and assessed by Commanders on the ground given the situation.

Only in the military can members be ordered to perform tasks knowing that it may result in their death.
 
Unfortunately i can not buy such a nice pistol,as i am not in the Canadian Forces(Good work and God bless to you guy's and,you people are truly worthy of such a nice pistol to commemorate your service and distinction to your country).I really feel it is a shame this pistol won't be available to regular folk as well....maybe there could be 2 different editions one for a actual or former C.F. member and a Civilian one,with some subtle differences,this would drive down the unit price for those service members who can barely afford it in the first place.One other thing that i must confess is on hard use duty style guns it has been proven time and time again adjustable sight's have almost no right being mounted on a "fighting gun",as screw's can vibrate loose, break or get lost.As well by design the adjustable sight is not as strong as a good simple robust fixed design.Keep adjustable sight's on competion gun's,fixed on the fighting style gun's.
 
tagged fo' interest yo. I could always use another 1911.
Railed 9mm double stack in black...HOLLA!
 
45alot said:
One other thing that i must confess is on hard use duty style guns it has been proven time and time again adjustable sight's have almost no right being mounted on a "fighting gun",as screw's can vibrate loose, break or get lost.As well by design the adjustable sight is not as strong as a good simple robust fixed design.Keep adjustable sight's on competion gun's,fixed on the fighting style gun's.
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??????????????????????????????

Well, I've heard that often before, so perhaps:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To put a fine point on it, you're saying the adjustable sights on our No 4 Mk1, C1, C2, C6, C7, , C8, C9 weapons were all just a huge mistake?

With the exception of the Lee Enfield, I've used all those weapons in my service. Jumped out of aircraft with every one of them. Done tours with them. God knows how many exercises. Thrown them in the backs of an assortment of vehicles. Along with the rest of the CF, treated them in ways that would make you puke if it was a weapon you'd purchased with your own money. And a handgun rarely, if ever, gets the hard use and abuse a rifle gets.

I have yet to knock a sight off one. Or have a screw "vibrate loose, break or get lost." Never seen it - including stints instructing hapless recruits at battle schools. I'm sure it happens - I've seen bent barrels and it doesn't get much stronger than that on a weapon - but I haven't seen any evidence of an epidemic of failing adjustable iron sights on service weapons.

And I suspect you haven't physically seen it either.

I put this story right up there with the "military small arms ammunition is designed to wound, not kill' stories.

Aside from that, given that the CF takes a dim view of soldiers bringing their own personal weapons along on tour, very few if any of these handguns will ever be used as "fighting style guns".
 
45alot said:
As well by design the adjustable sight is not as strong as a good simple robust fixed design.Keep adjustable sight's on competion gun's,fixed on the fighting style gun's.
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Ah yes, the romance of the Inglis Browning....and it's integral machined-from-the-slide rear sight.....

Yeah, the sights on those are awesome :rolleyes:

NOT

HiPowerInglis.jpg
 
This thread gets more and more exciting everytime I check it. I personally would be in favour of a .40 S&W. I look forward to seeing what the final designs will be. Cost could be the only limiting factor for me, plus what the wife has to say. I will be tuned into this thread til the end, and hopefully I can buy one too!
 
Let's keep the thread on topic guys. No pissing matches and straying off into the hinterlands.
Sorry I wasn't clear about the single stack vs double stack. I had assumed that part of the point of going with Para, SV or STI would have been for the double stack option. My mistake. Obviously its for a single stack in this case.
Looking forward to the pics from proposed gun.
 
Now i suppose i should clarify what i had ACUALLY MEANT, i'm sure your battle sights on you rifles are suffiently robust(AND ADJUSTABLE) be it on your No MKI,C1,C2,C6,C7,C8 or for that matter your C9,but in case you lost sight of the topic everyone was talking about,a pistol (The 1911 i believe)you shouldn't get so upset dude.Another thing i should clarify is just because i said "fixed sight" does not mean a sight cannot be drifted left or right as you might suggest with the Inglis Browning 9mm.It's been known for years a bomar adjustable sight is far less rugged as opposed to a Novak or Heinie fixed.Again i was never talking about rifles,but some people like high blood pressure.
 
Winz said:
You are lumping two separate things, each with their own variances, into one sentence and by in large, you are wrong.

A lawful command can not be ignored/refused. Lawful being something that is determined by JAGs and assessed by Commanders on the ground given the situation.

Only in the military can members be ordered to perform tasks knowing that it may result in their death.
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I failed to add in my comment that if the lawful command can be proven to be unlawful, then members of the CF can refuse to obey it, as evidenced by reading section 83 of the National Defence Act:

"The Canadian Forces requires its members to obey the lawful commands of superiors. It is not an offence to refuse to obey an unlawful command. Under section 83 of the National Defence Act (NDA), it is an element of the offence of disobeying a lawful command that the command be proven to be lawful. Members of the Canadian Forces are subject to the Criminal Code and would be subject to prosecution for any act of torture or other violation of the provisions of the Criminal Code dealing with cruel or inhuman treatment. An order to inflict torture upon a detainee would be a crime under section 269.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada and is punishable under section 130 of the NDA. Therefore, an order to commit an act of torture which is refused cannot result in a successful prosecution for disobeying a lawful command."

Mea culpa.
 
45alot said:
Now i suppose i should clarify what i had ACUALLY MEANT, i'm sure your battle sights on you rifles are suffiently robust(AND ADJUSTABLE) be it on your No MKI,C1,C2,C6,C7,C8 or for that matter your C9,but in case you lost sight of the topic everyone was talking about,a pistol (The 1911 i believe)you shouldn't get so upset dude. Again i was never talking about rifles,but some people like high blood pressure.
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And a quick look at your posting history shows some people like to quarrel - while posting that they were misunderstood. It's not my blood pressure; it's just that my tolerance for armchair theorizing gets lower with each passing year. Sorry about that.

And thank you for explaining the differences between a rifle, machine gun, and pistol to me; we infantry guys is dumb and kinda need reminding of the simple things in life once in a while. Now all I suppose I have to do is buy into the idea that adjustable sights can be robust on a rifle but not on a pistol such as Medic is proposing.

Ummmm... can't do that.

If you can provide some direct personal experience of having seen all these screws coming loose and all the other problems you suggested - as opposed to what is available by way of a friend's girlfriends, brother's dentists Dad's next door neighbor's experience - then I'd be interested in hearing it. Otherwise, I'll stick with a couple of decades of personal experience handling firearms for a living surrounded by others doing the same over whatever you might have to offer as hearsay evidence in lack of actual personal experience.

Which means I like the configuration of the pistol our friendly local medic is proposing just fine.

Including the dreaded adjustable sights. As I don't intend to use any handgun as a hammer or club, I don't anticipate any problems.

Besides, he's the one doing the legwork, so he gets to choose what he would like to have as features on the commemorative he is working on. We don't get to choose; we get to benefit from his work. Those of us qualified to take part in his purchase can vote with our wallets accordingly.

If you wish to school me further sir, I do respond to PMs and emails. Out to you.

CdnCombatMedic, the Public Affairs dude will be the one to start with as far as getting permission for use of CF trademarks, intellectual property, etc. He should know who to contact for the actual authorization. If you don't have easy access to that resource on deployment, you have my CF email addy - drop me a line and I'll start the ball rolling for you on that front and put you in email/phone contact with whoever you need to deal with.
 
Rick,

+1!!!
And people on here wonder sometimes why I get kinda surly with redundancy/thread piracy/ass talkery. Doing the Job for 15 years (Rick, sounds like we may have chewed some of the same dirt), patience wears kinda thin with that.

Well said sir.

Oh, and if I had to order my .45 Tour pistol again, it'd be as is except no "TF Whatever", and not Para (Simply the importation factor)
 
O.K there Rick!,and i suppose you sh#t on everyone else for an opinion,so than your saying bomar sight's are more rugged than Novak's?,your full of it Man!Just cause you were in the army does not mean you can void my opinion,why don't you spend your negative energy on dissing Liberals instead hip firing. it's obvious by design, in general fixed sights have almost alway's been more rugged than adjustable sight's(and there might be exceptions out there)But that don't mean ya gotta crap your pant's,man i didn't say anything to you to piss you off.....just merely talking about fixed sights being more robust on a 1911 ......chill man,spend the negative energy on a liberal.
 
Why you got such a problem with my opinion man?Just said fixed sight's are more rugged....chill man there's lying politician's out there to spend your negative energy on:bsFlag:
 
Is not fixed sight's or adjustable sights relavant to the pistol at topic?,i unlike someone else am keeping it relavant (do you here me talking about my C1,C2 C6,C9,)last i read this thread was about a 1911 for the C.F.,I never knew it was about Rick's different service rifles?I never hijacked sh$t.:bsFlag:
 
MikiP said:
Rick,

+1!!!
And people on here wonder sometimes why I get kinda surly with redundancy/thread piracy/ass talkery. Doing the Job for 15 years (Rick, sounds like we may have chewed some of the same dirt), patience wears kinda thin with that.

Well said sir.

Oh, and if I had to order my .45 Tour pistol again, it'd be as is except no "TF Whatever", and not Para (Simply the importation factor)
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Simple often equals elegant. CdnCombatMedic's proposed pistol has class written all over it, me likes. Well... I would like about 4.25" barrel length, but that's an individual quibble from somebody not doing the legwork. That's a pretty nice pistol he's proposing, although it might offend some theorists somehow or other.

I tried to do this a couple of years ago for the Airborne Regiment, also with Para. It fell through for coming up just short of sufficient numbers (perhaps a good thing now, after following Para's CF commemoratives here), but the pain in the ass trying to put it all together was real enough to make memories in their own right. So a big thumbs up to Medic for taking on what will almost certainly become an annoying job before it is over.
 
i would be interested, i ordered the special PARA ord pistol whilst overseas, i ordered in november, got back in march, and am still waiting,
 
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