Canadian Infantry in battle with the 12th SS

Great grandfather of ours lived through WW1 & WW2 in the Province of West Flanders Belgium.
While discussing during WW2, the then current German occupation, he told his children that things were much worse during the first war. The German cavalry used to lance onlooking unarmed civilians for sport while they rode through the streets of thier town. First world war German soldiers were way more brutal on the local populace in his opinion. (A non-Jewish perspective of course) Looting was more common as well. The Germans stole golden accoutremants kept in the churches.
Treaty of Versailles was payback.
 
Related to the subject of the thread, allied soldiers, including Canadians, also committed cruel acts against enemy POWs. Anyone who thinks it only went one way needs to pick up a book or two, or talk to some vets. I personally knew a man who was witness to a string of improper POW executions by allied soldiers. He refused to participate. One of the things they would sometimes do is line up the captured soldiers, form a firing line, and play a version of russian roulette, killing the prisoners one at a time.

The problem is, when everyone deserves, wants, and exacts payback, where does it end?
 
Dakk said:
Related to the subject of the thread, allied soldiers, including Canadians, also committed cruel acts against enemy POWs. Anyone who thinks it only went one way needs to pick up a book or two, or talk to some vets. I personally knew a man who was witness to a string of improper POW executions by allied soldiers. He refused to participate. One of the things they would sometimes do is line up the captured soldiers, form a firing line, and play a version of russian roulette, killing the prisoners one at a time.

The problem is, when everyone deserves, wants, and exacts payback, where does it end?
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Best post of this thread.
 
Dakk said:
Related to the subject of the thread, allied soldiers, including Canadians, also committed cruel acts against enemy POWs. Anyone who thinks it only went one way needs to pick up a book or two, or talk to some vets. I personally knew a man who was witness to a string of improper POW executions by allied soldiers. He refused to participate. One of the things they would sometimes do is line up the captured soldiers, form a firing line, and play a version of russian roulette, killing the prisoners one at a time.

The problem is, when everyone deserves, wants, and exacts payback, where does it end?
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Genocide on a massive scale, ridiculous numbers of dead soldiers and the new state of Israel.
 
If you punch your neighbour in the head for no reason don't complain if he kicks you in the nuts.

Although in fact it was more like kick you neighbour in the nuts, give him a few in the head when he's down, and then get your ass kicked by everyone on the block. Twice.

And then three generations later still cry about how unkind everyone was to you.

Nice mentality.
 
So were at this sh!t once again are we?

Everybody killed POW's, especially the Russians and Germans.


Mike Webb said:
Versailles was one of the leading causes of WW2, no doubt. The main component of the treaty seemed to be French vindictiveness towards Germany. Germany's industry was gutted by the treaty and outrageous reparations bills were expected to be shouldered by the German people.
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Bingo.
 
AdrianM said:
Chilling.

It's a hard thing to fathome; how a whole society could allow themselves to end up the way the germans did.

I just picked up a book about what the german people went through during the reign of the Nazi's. I look forward to reading it and getting some insight on how it was in Germany before and during the war.
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I spoke to an old German man and there was nothing there up to around 1950 except ruin and misery. A good example to illustrate the old saying:"the chickens have come home to roost".
 
hitler-watermelon.gif
 
More Germans came from the right. Two shot and killed two Novas who had surrendered. Still hidden, Pte. W. H. Gerrior shot these two Germans and three others; then he pulled the bolt from his rifle, threw it away, got up and surrendered without the Germans knowing where the shots had come from.
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I call some sort of Bull Sht on this, who in the hell watches POWs get shot and then after killing a bunch of krauts surrenders to thier buddies?

No one in thier right mind at that time (or any) should have expected to survive being a battlefield POW. Grew up around a bunch of Caen vets and they impressed very clearly what surrender under fire would mean.
 
david doyle said:
I call some sort of Bull Sht on this, who in the hell watches POWs get shot and then after killing a bunch of krauts surrenders to thier buddies?

No one in thier right mind at that time (or any) should have expected to survive being a battlefield POW. Grew up around a bunch of Caen vets and they impressed very clearly what surrender under fire would mean.
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This Thk, no quarter. Asked or given was the norm under fire is my understanding.
 
Dakk said:
Related to the subject of the thread, allied soldiers, including Canadians, also committed cruel acts against enemy POWs. Anyone who thinks it only went one way needs to pick up a book or two, or talk to some vets. I personally knew a man who was witness to a string of improper POW executions by allied soldiers. He refused to participate. One of the things they would sometimes do is line up the captured soldiers, form a firing line, and play a version of russian roulette, killing the prisoners one at a time.

The problem is, when everyone deserves, wants, and exacts payback, where does it end?
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Nobody but a moron would argue that atrocities were not committed by the Allies as well as the Germans. The difference being that acts committed by the Allies were random and many of those committed by the Germans came down the chain of command, " I vass only following orders."
 
wow...I'm not surprise that there are many NSDAP sympathizer here.

Waffen SS....they're a paramilitary organization that was originally used for their doctrine, due to death toll they open up other ethnic, when recruit start to drop they extort a lot of German teenager and forcing them to join. (typically they're accused of treason which is death penalty by show trial)

I have no sympathy to those volunteer into HJ, Waffen SS, NSDAP. Those that are forced, should not be shoved into the same pit. FYI the current Pope Benedict was a former HJ (forced into joining)


Kaiser Weilhelm II was the causative agent of WWI (he manage to break the BFF relation with Britain created by his father)
Hitler was the causative agent of WWII period

Germany and German was able to rise up and face their mistake, I applaud for that
The Japanese dust it under the carpet and now the current generation denies atroticites committed by their fathers and the emperor at the time (I blame the Americans as well, they rig the trial so that no crime was ever implicated against the emperor. See the trial of General Tojo)
 
Germany may have initially caused small continental wars, but Britain escalated them both into World Wars by dragging everyone into them.

Britain didn't have to declare war on Germany in WW1 nor WW2... Both instances it was led by a feeble reason.
 
WaffenMitUns said:
Germany may have initially caused small continental wars, but Britain escalated them both into World Wars by dragging everyone into them.

Britain didn't have to declare war on Germany in WW1 nor WW2... Both instances it was led by a feeble reason.
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It's fortunate that we live in a society where you are allowed to say things that make you seem like such a delusional idiot.
It's unfortunate that you choose to share them with us.
 
WaffenMitUns said:
Germany may have initially caused small continental wars, but Britain escalated them both into World Wars by dragging everyone into them.

Britain didn't have to declare war on Germany in WW1 nor WW2... Both instances it was led by a feeble reason.
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This may seem running counter to your gut reactions, but I would say that a surviving German soldier today is superior to people of today. However, generally I would say this about Commonwealth veterans who survive today too.

As an example, a typical British General of WWII, say General Slim, would have been a strict disciplinarian who would probably have no problem taking out his revolver and shooting a insubordinate soldier in a battle situation. Not to denigrate General Slim. Further, if I was a soldier during that era, as opposed to the 1980s, I would have probably spent a lot of time doing pack drill, and nursing black eyes.

To go back to the war scenario, the problem with being the 'top dog' on the field of battle is that you are on the top of the hill, and the dirty rascals keep coming, and there is nowhere to go from there but downhill. Nature at it's finest. :D

Edit: I have heard Allied vets (US to be specific) going on record as having said that the Germans were to be respected. (Battle of the Bulge).

I would be interested in what US vets have to say about the enemy combatants in Iraq wrt to respect, or for that matter, Canadian vets of the recent Afghan War.

ONE more thing. One the one hand, veterans speak from experience, and on the other hand, people of today mouth off knowing nothing.
 
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Some people need to travel more.
People are the same all over the world.
No culture or ethnic group has any monopoly on the good or bad habits of humans.
The large majority of people are nice people.
 
WaffenMitUns said:
Germany may have initially caused small continental wars, but Britain escalated them both into World Wars by dragging everyone into them.

Britain didn't have to declare war on Germany in WW1 nor WW2... Both instances it was led by a feeble reason.
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Be greatful you live in a democratic country that allows this differing & misguided opinion to be voiced publically.

You can thank an allied veteran of WW2 for putting his life on the line, for our morals and values.

BTW: "Don't piss down my back & tell me it's raining." <This quote certainly fits very well here.
 
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WaffenMitUns said:
Germany may have initially caused small continental wars, but Britain escalated them both into World Wars by dragging everyone into them.

Britain didn't have to declare war on Germany in WW1 nor WW2... Both instances it was led by a feeble reason.
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Read some more, good starts are
"Dreadnought" Robertn Massie, it is about the coming of the Great War,

"To Lose a Battle" Alistair Horne, about the fall of France, 1940.
"The Collapse of the Third Repulbic." William L. Shirer. He was there in 1940.


These are just a start. You have to read more, and widley.

Try, for an example, "Paris, 1919" by Margaret Macmillan regarding the Paris peace talks.
 
acts committed by the Allies were random and many of those committed by the Germans came down the chain of command,
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Ever heard of a little town called Hiroshima? or Hamburg? Heck even the CEF account of one of the Paschendale battles has canucks using lewis guns from the hip to turn surrending krauts into a mass of retreating confusion in order to complicate fresh troop deployments. (not decied by the guys who lived/died across from the fellows who had had enough) Once the gloves are off there are no "atrocities" that is why they call it war, there is no prize for second place even if you got there by being an honorable force.

The only thing you can be certain of is that the winners write the history and that every war is over a $, they are too expensive to fight for ay other reason. Bronze age Macedonians all the way up to yesterday it is about who levies tariffs, grants private privilage to common resources, makes findings in courts and grants tenures and liscences.

You can also be pretty sure that a mass of sheeple will see it otherwise.
 
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