Canadian Rangers and the No.4 rifle
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
Actually there are a lot of afghan fighters who are fans of the No 4 as there were plenty there and they were used to great effect on the soviets.
I would imagine that if I was in a group of afghan police I would want at least one guy to be able to take shots past 300 metres. They probably already have some though and the little blacksmith shops make parts all the time.
As far as protecting our arctic it makes sense to have the Rangers to patrol and a ground to sea and ground to air missile system to protect our shoreline as it would be the most effective and much cheaper. The sheeple would like that it could only be used for defence unlike a navy.
I would imagine that if I was in a group of afghan police I would want at least one guy to be able to take shots past 300 metres. They probably already have some though and the little blacksmith shops make parts all the time.
As far as protecting our arctic it makes sense to have the Rangers to patrol and a ground to sea and ground to air missile system to protect our shoreline as it would be the most effective and much cheaper. The sheeple would like that it could only be used for defence unlike a navy.
Perspective On SOV PAT Viewed From Vimy Ridge: April 9,2007
This coming Monday PM Stephen Harper will address the Canadian People and the World from Vimy Ridge.
Together there with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeht II, surrounded by 3600 or more Canadian school children. Canadian Armed Forces Seriving Members, Canadian Veterans, Royal Canadian Legion Members and so many others, the Prime Minister will mark the 90th Anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge and the Re-dedication of the Vimy Memorial.
Easter Monday, 1917 was a Day for Canada on Parade in the Face of Adversity to Win the Day.
It was a Day which Brig-Gen Alex Ross,DSO who commanded a Battalion at Vimy remarked:
It was Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific on Parade.
I thought then than in those few minutes, I witnessed
the Birth of a Nation.
We Need to Take Firm Grip of Our Canadian Destiny Earned at Inestimable Cost Overseas.
Ours is most essentially a Northern Destiny.
It REALLY deserves more National attention; that could include the Arms, Supplies and Federal Budget Resources Dedicated to Sovereignity Patrols on ALL of Canada's Borders as well as Peace Keepin and/or Peace Making Missions Overseas.
For example we as Canadians have just sent seventeen obsolete 30 year old tanks overseas so that presumably the obsolete tanks and their crews will "Keep On Carrying On" until 2010 when they are "DND due to be phased out".
Now on the Field of Battle In Afghanistan DND is apparently going to lease newer tanks..one equipped at the tank factory with air conditioning and with other devices like a larger calibre high speed main gun that REALLY needed for 21st Century Counter-insurgency Missions in a theatre like Afghanistan.
Is it fair to say it is for DND a "Hurry Up and Wait for Re-supply In Crisis" Approach?
Otherwise why display one of the 30 year old Leopard tanks at the DND CNE exhibit in August 2007, THEN send it and some sixteen others overseas in Winter 2006-2007 AND THEN replace them with New Tanks in Spring 2007 so that our Canadian Soldiers both men and women wont perish from heat stroke in the obsolete 30 year non airconditioned ones?
The "soon to be leased" Leopard II main battle tanks have a 120mm main gun versus the Leopard 105mm; the Leopard II weighs 70 tons with the accompanying robustness against IMDs versus the Leopards 42 tons,
The former Liberal Defence Minister and current MP John McCallum, who initially could not distinguish between "Vichy versus Vimy", turned down years ago Germany's offer to replace our DND 30 year old and obsolete Leopard tanks "free of charge" as some payback for all the traiing facilities we have provided to NATO and Germany in particular.
Former Defence Minister McCallums refusal was in his statement that "Canada does not accept charity" (i.e. Canada does have obsolete tanks BUT is it fair to say to bite off our National Nose to spite our potential loss of National Face we wont accept new tanks like the graciously offered NEW Leopard II tanks).
Is fair to say that IF MP McCallum was one again in 2008 Canada's Defence Minister that he and PM Dions Natural Born Governing Party Government would expect that present Canadian Tank Crews should "just soldier on" with the older Leopard tanks at 55 Celsius temperatures inside them?
Or would he as Defence Minister require that Canadian tank crews operate them so they just drive the 30 year old Leopard tanks out in dusty Afghanistan when it is cooler in the evenings or mornings of Summer 2007 or 2008.
No that the Taliban would ever anticipate that practice eh!
I suppose the idea is a "non starter" as presumably the FIRST act of either Minority Liberal NDP Government or Majority Liberal NDP Government would be to "Bring the Troops Home Now"!
War does take a terrible toll.
Perfectily Serviceable Peacetime equipment doesnt stand up to combat conditions it appears time and again.
The Globe and Mail stated in its April 3rd,2007 issue of "All LAV IIIs to be replaced within the year (i,e 2007).. because hard fighting and harsh conditions have taken a greater toll than expected"
Any resemblance betwen this approach and "hanging onto the trusty No4s in .303 for SOV PAT in the Arctic until it is found wanting is "purely coincidental " in my opinion.
Relying on the "trusted and true" does have its own limitations with LAV IIIs as for example continuing in service when they are no longer manufactured.
Some have advocated here that for the next 50 years the No. 4 .303 be used in SOV PAT in the Arctic and leave no gun store undisturbed in the process to find spare No.4's.
The LAV IIIs damaged or u/s cant be replaced as production has ceased. They dont make LAV IIIs anymore just no one makes No.4 MK Is anymore.
Ever wonder why?
Time and military equipment moves on. So do changes in tactics as to "Everything Old is New Again".
The "Heroes of Telemark" commando tactic works both ways.
As the 1943 Norwegian Commando group showed in WWII against the nazis, a very small group of secret agents can unobserved wreck great damage with explosives on a highly sophisticated installation far inland in an isolated setting.
The Heroes of Telemark prevented Nazi Germany from making an Atomic Bomb.
That was then; this is now..2007.
The question is in 2007 is could such a small force act successfully in such a way in a warlike attackagainst Canada and its installations, particularly in the petrochemical area in the NWT for example.
The Canadian Military is according to the April 3rd, 2007 isssue of the Globe and Mail planning a Military Exercise of (just) two terrorists attacking an oil pipeline/oil drilling installation in Alberta or the Northwest Territories.
The location may be somewhat uncertain as usually terrorists, even the two Canadian Armed Forces Members tasked with this war game style role playing wont be telegraphing exactly WHERE they will strike eh!
IF in the event any number of Canadian Rangers who are out "watching" happen to be in the line of fire of such an apparently anticipated terrorist attack at some unknown 2007 or 2008 or 2010 or 2015 time, do you really really want them to be armed with a bolt action ten shot rifle when the "s...t hits the fan"?
All we can do is talk to our Leaders in Government at All Levels to ascertain IF they "have a grip" on key Defence of Canada issues.
It may be necessary to "shake them up" in the sense of reminding them.,..elected Members of the House of Commons once and for all that it has cost a great deal of Canadian Courage and Honour to get this far.
Vimy Ridge and all too many War Memorials stand in mute testimony to this Canadian Fact.
Every day the House and Commons is in session all the 311 MPs enter through the portals of the The Peace Tower.
There in its Memorial Chamber are the Names of the Canadian Immortals..the 60,000 or more Canadian Men and Women who paid the Supreme Sacrifice to ensure that our Canadian Borders remained Sacrosanct and Free ..training for or paticipating in WWI, WWII, The Korean War, Peackeeping Missions, NATO Missions, and the current Afghanisitan Defence, Development and Diplomacy Mission.
We Need to to ask our MPs to Look Up Not Down as they enter there at the Peace Tower dedicated in 1927 on Canada's 6oth Birthday.
What, for example is theor MPs' collective vision of our Canadian Armed Forces past, present or future? In particular what is their MP perspective on SOV PAT Missions in the Canadian Arctic or on all our Sea to Sea to Sea Canadian Borders?
Can each MP distinguish between "Vichy or Vimy" as a former Defence Minister failed to do?
What is each individual MP's budgetted priority for Canada's Armed Forces?
"Soldiering On" with 50 or 60 year old obsolete in the 21st Century rifles and just ONE 24 man platoon strength SOV PAT Expedition in April 2007 is "Not Nearly Enough" in both my opinion and my own Canadian Heritage which I share with my fellow 33 Million Canadians.
My own relatives as Canadian Family Members were at Vimy Ridge ninety years ago.
There were three of them there at Vimy Ridge who were related to me.
There was Only One I actually knew very well from my childhood visits with him at his station as a Lockmaster on the Trent Canal in the 1950s.
He was the only one who survived Vimy Ridge and the WWI Battles that followed it.
He returned to Canada shaken at the Great Human Cost.
Most especially , he grieved that two of his nearest and nearest friends and relatives were lost on the Field of Honour.
He spoke of them time and again.
Pvt William Middleton MacNaughton of the 161st Overseas Battalion later KIA in September 1918 at age 21; Sgt Percy Bertrand MM of the "Fighting 93rd" Overseas Battalion later KIA in August 1918.
One 1950s afternoon Sgt Alan Lockington of the 116th Overseas Battalion spoke to me about his own "Day to Remember" at Vimy Ridge on Easter Monday 1917. He spoke of how he barely survived the day as a Lewis gunner; he told me about the ferocity of the Battle.
He told how afterwards in 1917 one of his assigned Military Duties was to load the many bodies of KIA Canadians into French boxcars that were labelled "Quatre chevaux; 40 hommes".
Sgt Alan Lockington told me that an average of 200 Canadians were stacked like cord wood in each one of the French boxcars that he helped to load and then were driven off to the many Military Graveyards that adorn France today.
Thats one of the images he remembered from World War I "The War to End All Wars".
Ninety years later is does appear that France has forgotten to send its highest ranking officials to the April 9th, 2007 Dedication of the Vimy Memorial on what is FOREVER Canadian Soil in France.
Considering this, is it fair to say that on April 9th, 2007 this coming Monday as PM Stephen Harper speaks from Vimy Ridge that we "might want to re-dedicate ourselves to Canada's Honour at Home as well?
Simply paying attention to our Canadian Arctic Sovereignity is part of that in my opinion.
Looking Up North Really Is Part of Our National Destiny Enshrined on a Muddy Hellfire Vimy Ridge 90 years ago or for that matter to all our Borders.
We Can Do More IF We Have the Willpower to do so.
We can end 311 MPs to the House of Commons to represent us or 3600 Canadian school children to France and Vimy Ridge to Honour Canada and Canadians.
The 311 MPs represent every Canadian Province and Territory as do the 3600 Canadian school children this Easter weekend at Vimy. In the latter instance each one of these 3600 Canadian Children represents one of the 3600 Canadians KIA on Vimy Ridge April 9th, 1917.
Yet ninety years later in the latter instance would you believe that the Dept of Veterans Affairs "cant get there (Vimy) from here (Canada)" for 3600 school children. The Dept apparently cancelled the 3600 lunches for the 3600 school children representling the 3600 KIA Canadians at Vimy Ridge because according the CBC wev page, the "3600 lunches would be too expensive".
This allocation of funds for the apparently "huge co$t of (insert one) 1) school childrens' lunches at Vimy Ridge; 2) mounting SOV PAT Missions; 3) refurbishing or replacing 4200 rifles for the Canadian Rangers: 4) sending our Troops to Afghanistan with tanks or proper armoured trucks; 5) insert your own item here; is a familiar and timeless theme.
Why indeed cant we send more than 24 Canadian Rangers and Canadian Armed Forces Members on a April 2007 SOV PAT Mission?
In my opinion it is the "Vision" of Canada you assign to your budget.
For example if the Dept of Veterans Affairs bureaucrats or its current Minister do not "see" in the heights of Vimy Ridge the budgeted need for 3600 school children lunches, they wont pay for any until the media or others "turn up the heat" as they will today.
Similarly IF the 311 MPs who enter the House of Commons each day dont "see" in the heights of the Peace Tower the immense and immeasureable HUMAN COST to Canada and All Canadians in that Peace Towers symbolism, these same MPs wont deem to fund the Canadian Armed Forces and auxilary units like the Canadian Rangers or the Cadets to a sufficent level.
Is it fair to say that in the latter instance that all the Peace Tower is to them is a convenient portal to a political career that has other budgetted priorities other than DND.
Ever wonder where General Rick Hillier got his key succint phase, "Dark Decade" for DND?
Most Democratic Nations in the World of the 140 or more that there are do allocate on a yearly basis at least two or three per cent of their Gross National Product or GNP to their National Defence.
One Nation that knows that well and which owes much to Canada and Canadians for its Liberation in March-May 1945 does.
Holland allocated two and a half per cent of their GNP to their Armed Forces.
Canada allocates one and one quater per cent or thereabouts of its GNP to its DND.
Over 7700 Canadians were KIA in March to May 1945 in the Liberation of Holland.
"Do less with more" and "Soldier On" or "Improvise" are the GNP budget watchwords it appears in my opinion for DND funding and as a Canadian National Priority.
My perspective on it is from both the History of Canada as well as my own Family's involvement in WWI or WWII or my neighbours, As a three or four year old child in 1943 or 1944 I watched my young sixteen year old neighbours march off to War to Defend Canada.
The April 2007 SOV PAT Expedition is raising cairns and raising the Canadian Flag along their Arctic Route. I hope they took along a Canadian Red Ensign to raise somewhere in the Far North next Monday.
Once upon a April 9th, 1917 Time it was the Flag at the Birth of a Nation: Canada.
Passing the Torch Means Committment in Deeds as well as Words.
This coming Monday PM Stephen Harper will address the Canadian People and the World from Vimy Ridge.
Together there with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeht II, surrounded by 3600 or more Canadian school children. Canadian Armed Forces Seriving Members, Canadian Veterans, Royal Canadian Legion Members and so many others, the Prime Minister will mark the 90th Anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge and the Re-dedication of the Vimy Memorial.
Easter Monday, 1917 was a Day for Canada on Parade in the Face of Adversity to Win the Day.
It was a Day which Brig-Gen Alex Ross,DSO who commanded a Battalion at Vimy remarked:
It was Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific on Parade.
I thought then than in those few minutes, I witnessed
the Birth of a Nation.
We Need to Take Firm Grip of Our Canadian Destiny Earned at Inestimable Cost Overseas.
Ours is most essentially a Northern Destiny.
It REALLY deserves more National attention; that could include the Arms, Supplies and Federal Budget Resources Dedicated to Sovereignity Patrols on ALL of Canada's Borders as well as Peace Keepin and/or Peace Making Missions Overseas.
For example we as Canadians have just sent seventeen obsolete 30 year old tanks overseas so that presumably the obsolete tanks and their crews will "Keep On Carrying On" until 2010 when they are "DND due to be phased out".
Now on the Field of Battle In Afghanistan DND is apparently going to lease newer tanks..one equipped at the tank factory with air conditioning and with other devices like a larger calibre high speed main gun that REALLY needed for 21st Century Counter-insurgency Missions in a theatre like Afghanistan.
Is it fair to say it is for DND a "Hurry Up and Wait for Re-supply In Crisis" Approach?
Otherwise why display one of the 30 year old Leopard tanks at the DND CNE exhibit in August 2007, THEN send it and some sixteen others overseas in Winter 2006-2007 AND THEN replace them with New Tanks in Spring 2007 so that our Canadian Soldiers both men and women wont perish from heat stroke in the obsolete 30 year non airconditioned ones?
The "soon to be leased" Leopard II main battle tanks have a 120mm main gun versus the Leopard 105mm; the Leopard II weighs 70 tons with the accompanying robustness against IMDs versus the Leopards 42 tons,
The former Liberal Defence Minister and current MP John McCallum, who initially could not distinguish between "Vichy versus Vimy", turned down years ago Germany's offer to replace our DND 30 year old and obsolete Leopard tanks "free of charge" as some payback for all the traiing facilities we have provided to NATO and Germany in particular.
Former Defence Minister McCallums refusal was in his statement that "Canada does not accept charity" (i.e. Canada does have obsolete tanks BUT is it fair to say to bite off our National Nose to spite our potential loss of National Face we wont accept new tanks like the graciously offered NEW Leopard II tanks).
Is fair to say that IF MP McCallum was one again in 2008 Canada's Defence Minister that he and PM Dions Natural Born Governing Party Government would expect that present Canadian Tank Crews should "just soldier on" with the older Leopard tanks at 55 Celsius temperatures inside them?
Or would he as Defence Minister require that Canadian tank crews operate them so they just drive the 30 year old Leopard tanks out in dusty Afghanistan when it is cooler in the evenings or mornings of Summer 2007 or 2008.
No that the Taliban would ever anticipate that practice eh!
I suppose the idea is a "non starter" as presumably the FIRST act of either Minority Liberal NDP Government or Majority Liberal NDP Government would be to "Bring the Troops Home Now"!
War does take a terrible toll.
Perfectily Serviceable Peacetime equipment doesnt stand up to combat conditions it appears time and again.
The Globe and Mail stated in its April 3rd,2007 issue of "All LAV IIIs to be replaced within the year (i,e 2007).. because hard fighting and harsh conditions have taken a greater toll than expected"
Any resemblance betwen this approach and "hanging onto the trusty No4s in .303 for SOV PAT in the Arctic until it is found wanting is "purely coincidental " in my opinion.
Relying on the "trusted and true" does have its own limitations with LAV IIIs as for example continuing in service when they are no longer manufactured.
Some have advocated here that for the next 50 years the No. 4 .303 be used in SOV PAT in the Arctic and leave no gun store undisturbed in the process to find spare No.4's.
The LAV IIIs damaged or u/s cant be replaced as production has ceased. They dont make LAV IIIs anymore just no one makes No.4 MK Is anymore.
Ever wonder why?
Time and military equipment moves on. So do changes in tactics as to "Everything Old is New Again".
The "Heroes of Telemark" commando tactic works both ways.
As the 1943 Norwegian Commando group showed in WWII against the nazis, a very small group of secret agents can unobserved wreck great damage with explosives on a highly sophisticated installation far inland in an isolated setting.
The Heroes of Telemark prevented Nazi Germany from making an Atomic Bomb.
That was then; this is now..2007.
The question is in 2007 is could such a small force act successfully in such a way in a warlike attackagainst Canada and its installations, particularly in the petrochemical area in the NWT for example.
The Canadian Military is according to the April 3rd, 2007 isssue of the Globe and Mail planning a Military Exercise of (just) two terrorists attacking an oil pipeline/oil drilling installation in Alberta or the Northwest Territories.
The location may be somewhat uncertain as usually terrorists, even the two Canadian Armed Forces Members tasked with this war game style role playing wont be telegraphing exactly WHERE they will strike eh!
IF in the event any number of Canadian Rangers who are out "watching" happen to be in the line of fire of such an apparently anticipated terrorist attack at some unknown 2007 or 2008 or 2010 or 2015 time, do you really really want them to be armed with a bolt action ten shot rifle when the "s...t hits the fan"?
All we can do is talk to our Leaders in Government at All Levels to ascertain IF they "have a grip" on key Defence of Canada issues.
It may be necessary to "shake them up" in the sense of reminding them.,..elected Members of the House of Commons once and for all that it has cost a great deal of Canadian Courage and Honour to get this far.
Vimy Ridge and all too many War Memorials stand in mute testimony to this Canadian Fact.
Every day the House and Commons is in session all the 311 MPs enter through the portals of the The Peace Tower.
There in its Memorial Chamber are the Names of the Canadian Immortals..the 60,000 or more Canadian Men and Women who paid the Supreme Sacrifice to ensure that our Canadian Borders remained Sacrosanct and Free ..training for or paticipating in WWI, WWII, The Korean War, Peackeeping Missions, NATO Missions, and the current Afghanisitan Defence, Development and Diplomacy Mission.
We Need to to ask our MPs to Look Up Not Down as they enter there at the Peace Tower dedicated in 1927 on Canada's 6oth Birthday.
What, for example is theor MPs' collective vision of our Canadian Armed Forces past, present or future? In particular what is their MP perspective on SOV PAT Missions in the Canadian Arctic or on all our Sea to Sea to Sea Canadian Borders?
Can each MP distinguish between "Vichy or Vimy" as a former Defence Minister failed to do?
What is each individual MP's budgetted priority for Canada's Armed Forces?
"Soldiering On" with 50 or 60 year old obsolete in the 21st Century rifles and just ONE 24 man platoon strength SOV PAT Expedition in April 2007 is "Not Nearly Enough" in both my opinion and my own Canadian Heritage which I share with my fellow 33 Million Canadians.
My own relatives as Canadian Family Members were at Vimy Ridge ninety years ago.
There were three of them there at Vimy Ridge who were related to me.
There was Only One I actually knew very well from my childhood visits with him at his station as a Lockmaster on the Trent Canal in the 1950s.
He was the only one who survived Vimy Ridge and the WWI Battles that followed it.
He returned to Canada shaken at the Great Human Cost.
Most especially , he grieved that two of his nearest and nearest friends and relatives were lost on the Field of Honour.
He spoke of them time and again.
Pvt William Middleton MacNaughton of the 161st Overseas Battalion later KIA in September 1918 at age 21; Sgt Percy Bertrand MM of the "Fighting 93rd" Overseas Battalion later KIA in August 1918.
One 1950s afternoon Sgt Alan Lockington of the 116th Overseas Battalion spoke to me about his own "Day to Remember" at Vimy Ridge on Easter Monday 1917. He spoke of how he barely survived the day as a Lewis gunner; he told me about the ferocity of the Battle.
He told how afterwards in 1917 one of his assigned Military Duties was to load the many bodies of KIA Canadians into French boxcars that were labelled "Quatre chevaux; 40 hommes".
Sgt Alan Lockington told me that an average of 200 Canadians were stacked like cord wood in each one of the French boxcars that he helped to load and then were driven off to the many Military Graveyards that adorn France today.
Thats one of the images he remembered from World War I "The War to End All Wars".
Ninety years later is does appear that France has forgotten to send its highest ranking officials to the April 9th, 2007 Dedication of the Vimy Memorial on what is FOREVER Canadian Soil in France.
Considering this, is it fair to say that on April 9th, 2007 this coming Monday as PM Stephen Harper speaks from Vimy Ridge that we "might want to re-dedicate ourselves to Canada's Honour at Home as well?
Simply paying attention to our Canadian Arctic Sovereignity is part of that in my opinion.
Looking Up North Really Is Part of Our National Destiny Enshrined on a Muddy Hellfire Vimy Ridge 90 years ago or for that matter to all our Borders.
We Can Do More IF We Have the Willpower to do so.
We can end 311 MPs to the House of Commons to represent us or 3600 Canadian school children to France and Vimy Ridge to Honour Canada and Canadians.
The 311 MPs represent every Canadian Province and Territory as do the 3600 Canadian school children this Easter weekend at Vimy. In the latter instance each one of these 3600 Canadian Children represents one of the 3600 Canadians KIA on Vimy Ridge April 9th, 1917.
Yet ninety years later in the latter instance would you believe that the Dept of Veterans Affairs "cant get there (Vimy) from here (Canada)" for 3600 school children. The Dept apparently cancelled the 3600 lunches for the 3600 school children representling the 3600 KIA Canadians at Vimy Ridge because according the CBC wev page, the "3600 lunches would be too expensive".
This allocation of funds for the apparently "huge co$t of (insert one) 1) school childrens' lunches at Vimy Ridge; 2) mounting SOV PAT Missions; 3) refurbishing or replacing 4200 rifles for the Canadian Rangers: 4) sending our Troops to Afghanistan with tanks or proper armoured trucks; 5) insert your own item here; is a familiar and timeless theme.
Why indeed cant we send more than 24 Canadian Rangers and Canadian Armed Forces Members on a April 2007 SOV PAT Mission?
In my opinion it is the "Vision" of Canada you assign to your budget.
For example if the Dept of Veterans Affairs bureaucrats or its current Minister do not "see" in the heights of Vimy Ridge the budgeted need for 3600 school children lunches, they wont pay for any until the media or others "turn up the heat" as they will today.
Similarly IF the 311 MPs who enter the House of Commons each day dont "see" in the heights of the Peace Tower the immense and immeasureable HUMAN COST to Canada and All Canadians in that Peace Towers symbolism, these same MPs wont deem to fund the Canadian Armed Forces and auxilary units like the Canadian Rangers or the Cadets to a sufficent level.
Is it fair to say that in the latter instance that all the Peace Tower is to them is a convenient portal to a political career that has other budgetted priorities other than DND.
Ever wonder where General Rick Hillier got his key succint phase, "Dark Decade" for DND?
Most Democratic Nations in the World of the 140 or more that there are do allocate on a yearly basis at least two or three per cent of their Gross National Product or GNP to their National Defence.
One Nation that knows that well and which owes much to Canada and Canadians for its Liberation in March-May 1945 does.
Holland allocated two and a half per cent of their GNP to their Armed Forces.
Canada allocates one and one quater per cent or thereabouts of its GNP to its DND.
Over 7700 Canadians were KIA in March to May 1945 in the Liberation of Holland.
"Do less with more" and "Soldier On" or "Improvise" are the GNP budget watchwords it appears in my opinion for DND funding and as a Canadian National Priority.
My perspective on it is from both the History of Canada as well as my own Family's involvement in WWI or WWII or my neighbours, As a three or four year old child in 1943 or 1944 I watched my young sixteen year old neighbours march off to War to Defend Canada.
The April 2007 SOV PAT Expedition is raising cairns and raising the Canadian Flag along their Arctic Route. I hope they took along a Canadian Red Ensign to raise somewhere in the Far North next Monday.
Once upon a April 9th, 1917 Time it was the Flag at the Birth of a Nation: Canada.
Passing the Torch Means Committment in Deeds as well as Words.
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Here is my 2 cents...based on a 10 day visit with a Ranger patrol in Baffin Island, I think the Enfield #4 is not well suited. On one instance the Ranger had his stored rolled in a blanket in the bottom of his boat....when brought for inspection the day after we arrived you can imagine opening the blanket was like archeological authopsy of a mommy. The second instance is when I saw a resourcefull Ranger who had removed the peep sight and made a rear sight out of a spoon handle tied to the receiver with a collet...he had filed a groove to his liking and for elevation, he used his sparkplug wrench and tapped the spoon handle to needed adjustment. Then on a caribou hunt, they all had their own civilian rifles (incl .22)...I would promote a Canadian made Savage, SS, Syn stock, 308, iron sights, ...an everyday rifle.
Keep the change!
Keep the change!
JacquesT said:
What you're describing has nothing to do with the rifle and everything to do with the individual Ranger and his Patrol.
Why would you assume that a different type of rifle would be treated any differently? If you treat your equipment like ####, it's going to end up garbage, no matter what it is.
Fit to purpose...
I agree that misuse of equip result in N/S condition...regardless of the rifle model. My point is more to better adapt the equipment of the Rangers and not limit it to our military inventory of rifles mainly design for warfare...my humble exposure made me witness a disconnect with the Ranger use of firearm and the one supplied to them. I simply think we should better allign our provisionning in firearm with their requirements.
Stevo said:
I agree that misuse of equip result in N/S condition...regardless of the rifle model. My point is more to better adapt the equipment of the Rangers and not limit it to our military inventory of rifles mainly design for warfare...my humble exposure made me witness a disconnect with the Ranger use of firearm and the one supplied to them. I simply think we should better allign our provisionning in firearm with their requirements.
Polar Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I live in the north, and let me tell you, first and foremost these rangers are hunters, and millitary discipline is not the first thing on their minds.
They probably carry their own rifles the same way when out on hunting trips, their rifle is just a tool, and they know how to use them quite well.
I work in the jail here and that spoon sight is just one example of the injenuity these guys are capable of.
They probably carry their own rifles the same way when out on hunting trips, their rifle is just a tool, and they know how to use them quite well.
I work in the jail here and that spoon sight is just one example of the injenuity these guys are capable of.
A condensed story about a Ranger and his No.4.
I spent some time with the Baffin Island Rangers North of Pangnirtung in Auyuittuq National Park and was treated to an awesome display of marksmanship. Flying up the fjord in a 24ft boat with a thousand hp motor, two Rangers and three army guys, suddenly exciting yelling and pointing from one Ranger to the other, a dive into the cuddy to pull out the No.4, a jump onto the cuddy roof, a site picture and a shot.......bring the boat back from Mach 7 to trolling speed to gaff a seal as we go by.......a quick feast of warm raw liver and back to Mach 7........one shot, just aft of the front flipper - about 75 yards..... a beautiful skin for the wall, and a heck of an impression on an a young army dink.
Scottie
I spent some time with the Baffin Island Rangers North of Pangnirtung in Auyuittuq National Park and was treated to an awesome display of marksmanship. Flying up the fjord in a 24ft boat with a thousand hp motor, two Rangers and three army guys, suddenly exciting yelling and pointing from one Ranger to the other, a dive into the cuddy to pull out the No.4, a jump onto the cuddy roof, a site picture and a shot.......bring the boat back from Mach 7 to trolling speed to gaff a seal as we go by.......a quick feast of warm raw liver and back to Mach 7........one shot, just aft of the front flipper - about 75 yards..... a beautiful skin for the wall, and a heck of an impression on an a young army dink.
Scottie
An impressive group!
Exciting time you had there...when I was there (May) the ice still covered the bay so we went seal hunting...what I saw was not a long range shot...as the seal went up the ice breathing hole he was welcomed by a 303 at point blank and the spike brought it out in a second...then the feast on the fresh meat..I had a taste...was like eating a raw shrimp sort of. On the caribou hunt, they seemed to prefer their personal gun...saw long shots with all kinds of rifles...seems a hit caribou would not run but just bleed to death on the spot...I was not allowed to shoot but gave a hand rallying the bodies and did a bit of skinning...some adventure.
Exciting time you had there...when I was there (May) the ice still covered the bay so we went seal hunting...what I saw was not a long range shot...as the seal went up the ice breathing hole he was welcomed by a 303 at point blank and the spike brought it out in a second...then the feast on the fresh meat..I had a taste...was like eating a raw shrimp sort of. On the caribou hunt, they seemed to prefer their personal gun...saw long shots with all kinds of rifles...seems a hit caribou would not run but just bleed to death on the spot...I was not allowed to shoot but gave a hand rallying the bodies and did a bit of skinning...some adventure.
exmeathead said:
Cool stories guys it makes me want to check out our north even more.
I would really like a modern 21st century Enfield made in Canada in 308 with a full length synthetic stock. It could be phased in as the current rifles aged out and would not need much if any retraining and would be acceptable to the politicians and public as a bolt action but would still be capable of fast repeat shots at long range. Think of a Socom 16 built on an Enfield action.
I would really like a modern 21st century Enfield made in Canada in 308 with a full length synthetic stock. It could be phased in as the current rifles aged out and would not need much if any retraining and would be acceptable to the politicians and public as a bolt action but would still be capable of fast repeat shots at long range. Think of a Socom 16 built on an Enfield action.
Unsub said:
Shhh don't give anyone idea's here.
Maybe I'll dig out if I can find it the Jpeg of something similar that I thought up using a No.4 Action without the ring to connect 2 stock halfs together on a HS Precision stock.
Dimitri
CanukMauser
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Alberta
SONOFPALEFACE-
Off topic but the LAV III is still being built I'm a mechanic for General Dynamics and the LAV is still in production as is the STRYKER.
We are currently doing a refit of all LAV III's even the ones coming back from overseas.
Off topic but the LAV III is still being built I'm a mechanic for General Dynamics and the LAV is still in production as is the STRYKER.
We are currently doing a refit of all LAV III's even the ones coming back from overseas.
Unsub said:
When I find the picture, its on one of my backup CD's somewhere here, its been a while since I made it but think of a No.4 action in a HS Persision Tactical Stock like this one, with a Stainless Steel Barrel.
So think of this:
With this:
And a Lilja Stainless Steel #7 Contour Barrel:
Dimitri
Weapons section at 1 GS Bn in Edmonton received about 2000 No 4's 3 years ago a mixture of Irish, Indian and British I believe basically out of a triwall of a 100 rifles maybe 60 would be serviceable. The rest were stripped for parts.
I think the Govt bought them by the pound.
I think the Govt bought them by the pound.
