Canadian Rangers and the No.4 rifle

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x westie

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Im curious to what amount of spare No.4 rifles the Canadian Army has on stock, as this is the weapon the Canadian Rangers are issued, i read several years ago that DND had to go to Greece and buy surplus Long Branch No.4 rifles as the Canadian Government had sold off too many No.4 rifles, with more attention on Canada's Northern defences, Ranger ranks will probably have to increase, and there fore every new Ranger will need a rifle. :D
 
I'll donate mine to the cause....just have Mr.Martin send me $2,000,000 for postage.

Hell why not, I hear they have spent more on less usefull things. :wink:
 
Original stocks of No. 4s being depleted, EAL rifles were issued for a time, and then additional supplies of No. 4 rifles were acquired from surplus stocks. Don't know about Greece, but some were purchased commercially. LBs were the first choice, but UK No. 4 Mk. IIs were also acquired and issued. Don't know if there are any plans for expansion of the Ranger operation, but there is talk of acquisition of a new rifle for Ranger issue, the supply of No. 4s in the long term being uncertain. There is no large inventory of these rifles. It would be obvious to procure a semi auto only version of the C7 rifle, but this option is extremely unlikely.
 
I don't think that a C7 would be the best bush gun, survival gun, or bear gun which is what the Rangers need. Maybe a C1A1 but a good bolt action like the #4 is likely the best option if they can do it. Maybe remingtion 700's with 10rd detachable mags or other similar modified bolt guns like a ruger scout in 308w?
 
The Ruger was considered. Ruger was prepared to supply them with a Ranger motif being moulded into the stock. One problem at the time was cost - minimum order was for 5 000. The C1A1 would be an option, and the ammunition is readily available without requiring special purchase, but once again this is unlikely to happen. Assuming that the C1A1s haven't all been destroyed. Remember that Rangers take their rifles home with them, with ammunition. This is something that regular soldiers are not allowed to do. This is not Switzerland; Canadians could not possibly be trusted with the unsupervised possession of a modern miitary rifle. As I mentionned before, there is talk of a new rifle for Ranger issue, so perhaps some version of a commercial bolt action rifle is being considered. Few commercial rifles are sufficiently rugged for general military type service though. Sights in particular are often flimsy.
 
My Patrol was initially issued with Long Branch No4 Mk1*'s, dated from '43 to '52 and all with the C Mk3 rear sight. The rifles were of mixed blued and parkerized finish, as some were refurbed. Another Patrol in my area was issued Faz No4 MkII's with CAI import marks.

The C7 would be a fun, but poor, choice for us. I'd rather not try to take a moose or stop a black bear with 5.56 NATO.

The C1 would be my choice for a Ranger rifle :wink: , but probably not the best one. It's large and heavy, and no real improvement over the No4.

Our rifles take a beating in the field, so I don't think you could go with a delicate Remchester.

Keep in mind, the Army has very little attention focused on us. No attention, no money. Therefore the chance of them spending real money on our rifles is pretty small. I don't think we'll see new rifles in the near future at all. If we do, my bets would be on the C1, just because they're in reserve (for now), not because they'd be the best choice.

Maybe they could get Norinco to do up a big run of M305's for us. :wink:

Remember that Rangers take their rifles home with them, with ammunition. This is something that regular soldiers are not allowed to do. This is not Switzerland; Canadians could not possibly be trusted with the unsupervised possession of a modern miitary rifle.
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Keep in mind the Gov't has nothing to do with this policy. The Army DOES trust me to take a rifle home with me. I don't believe the C1 would be viewed by the brass as significantly different from the No4.
 
But would you be allowed to hunt with the FN like you are with the No.4?

Where is the nearest patrol to St. John's anyway?

I was out shooting last week with my No.4 with a few boxes of 97 IVI ammo I picked up locally. I felt sorta Rangerish already. :)
 
There have been supply problems with No. 4s for years, as well as with .303 ammunition. C1A1 rifles were available all the time, but were never issued. 7.62 ball is available from stores without requiring commercial purchase or special orders. Keep in mind that there have been occasions when Rangers and Ranger rifles have been involved in unpleasant incidents. A Ranger with his issue rifle and an RCMP member exchanged rounds outside my bedroom window one New Years. Perhaps it is nothing more than the recognition that Rangers do not need a modern service rifle, but I would be very surprised if Rangers were ever issued a modern auto rifle.
 
I bet the PGW boys could work up something robust and reliable for the rangers.

Bet they could do it for a reasonable price too, considering the size of the order. Made in CANADA eh?

:idea:
 
A source tells me that Canada recently purchased another 800 ex-Indian #4s to support the rangers. From what I have seen up North, the rifles see some pretty hard times, including rust and cracked wood. But as poor as the rifle looked, the Ranger we were with still dropped a Caribou in full run at 400 yards.
 
Maybe an Enfield round up is in order... there must be thousands stashed across the country. I'd sell a couple back the government for a fair price ;)
 
Back in 95, 2,200 #4's were destroyed 1 km from Ranger Training H.Q.. Approximately 1 month later a request for 2,000 #4's was put through the system and were purchased from the British government, for the Northern Rangers. Odd I know. In 91 the last of 80,000 C1's went to War Storage 202 Wk Shop. So the Rangers can still draw on these, if it were okay'ed. As for C7's, they look and shoot good, but they would be a poor choice for the real wilderness on a daily basis.
I beleive a replacement for both the #4 and the C7 are required. For the betterment of Canada.
 
Whose bright idea was it to destroy 2,200 No.4 rifles

The Queens Medalist 86 said:
Back in 95, 2,200 #4's were destroyed 1 km from Ranger Training H.Q.. Approximately 1 month later a request for 2,000 #4's was put through the system and were purchased from the British government, for the Northern Rangers. Odd I know. In 91 the last of 80,000 C1's went to War Storage 202 Wk Shop. So the Rangers can still draw on these, if it were okay'ed. As for C7's, they look and shoot good, but they would be a poor choice for the real wilderness on a daily basis.
I beleive a replacement for both the #4 and the C7 are required. For the betterment of Canada.
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This has got to be stupidest move yet by the Canadian government, Destroy good rifles that many of us would love to own, then turn around and buy the same rifle again, was this DND or our great politically correct Canadian Firearms police?????? :idea: :idea:
 
The dreaded Ishyscrew is spreading into the Canadian North!
If there were a cache of Ross sniper rifles put into the grease in 1918 were discovered in the back of a warehouse, they would be destroyed rather than being sold.
 
Dreaded Ishyscrew? Well, at least it is a rifle!
I would fear more "Fishy Screw" from our stupid and unproductive administrators back at Ottawa.
BTW, don't you think "Fishy screw" goes well with Pettyscrew (Pettygrew? Prettyscrew? sp.) ? :wink:
PP.
 
It's too bad liberals don't own guns... if they did they might at least have cleaning accidents and what not to reduce their numbers :evil:
 
Stick with the Enfield #4, and if you have an extra send me one, and I'll "patrol" the Cowichan Valley on Vancouver Island for you guys. :mrgreen:

Edited to add :
For your harsh climate I'd choose a Finnish built Valmet long before a C7.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as43-e.htm

http://www.valmet.org/

Nothing against C7s, but Valmets are UBER tough Rifles built for the cold, and you can still hunt with them.
 
Our GREAT Government officials.......if they trusted their own laws and all of the dollars spent on useless registration....as they "say" they do....then why would there be any peril in selling surplus to their Candian "subjects"? They could use the funds to finance some other idiot scheme.....pip-pip....cheerio and all that rot!
 
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