Canadian Rangers and the No.4 rifle

A number of years ago, when the inventory of No.4 rifles in Canada suddenly dried up, the possibility of a new rifle was investigated. The Ruger 77 Mk.2 synthetic was considered,with some adaptations. Ruger would do it for an order for 5 000 rifles. The cost was too high, and 5 000 was too many. This is when the decision to purchase No. 4 rifles on the surplus market was made. It would seem that only bolt action rifles are acceptable for Ranger use. Can you suggest any currently available rifle that could be offered in a "patrol" version which would have the qualities of the No. 4? It would even be attractive to have the rifles available in either 5.56 or 7.62, and with a mount to accept optical sights.
 
I think Diemaco makes or made No 4 parts no? I recently saw a pic on here of a front sight insert with the Diemaco mark on it.


Bobo-the-monkey said:
Sorry Guys....I think I can give you guys some info on this. Being a Ranger Instructor for the Canadian Rangers, I can definitly shed some light. :D

While the rules governing the issue of the No4 are a lot less restrictive then the rules about the C7A1; I assure you, if a Ranger loses their No4, there is an RCMP/MP investigation. If negligence or criminal intent is suspected, the Ranger is investigated and if the charges are founded, then the member is released with disgrace from the CF and chaged under the Criminal Code of Canada. (Sadly this has happened on occasion) We take a grim view of "losing your rifle" in the Military.:mad:

Now to be fair to your source, it does happen that a rifle is occasionaly lost by falling overboard or off the side of mountain and is beyond recovery. A replacement will be issued once it is deemed that its loss was a training mishap and not negligence. But it isnt as easy as just handing out another rifle. Endless paperwork, statements and an investigation have to occur and then a rifle is eventualy re-issued to the Ranger. It is the nature of the type of training that we do that rifles and equipment do from time to time get destroyed or lost due to extenuating circumstances.

As for the sniffing around gun shows, That also, is a rumour.
There are very strict guidlines in the CF about purchasing Firearms outside of special contracts. A No4 bought privately through a gunshow by DND would have to be inspected, proved sound and be subject rebuild prior to entry into our supply system. Lets not forget the endless bureaucracy surrounding getting approval to make a DND Federal purchase and the public relations disaster if word got out. (Headline Globe and Mail:"Liberal Government goes shopping at gunshows to buy WW2 rifles to equip our Canadian Soldiers":eek: )

Up untill last month, DND had a contract for the production of new parts for the No. 4. (not sure which company but I will try to find out for you folks) I know this because we have shelves full of spare parts with manufacturing dates like ranging from 1942 - 1996 etc. (Being an Enfield fan and collector, I start to vibrate like a kid in a candy store every time I walk past the parts cage) :D Sadly, I just found out last week that DND is not renewing the contract. :( Parts are going to start to dry up but the good thing is that the No 4 is so tough that it doesnt usually break.

Whew!!!! That was rather long winded but I hope that helps shed some light on the Canadian Ranger No 4s still in service.
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Calum said:
Not PC but...I would have pointed out that those Enfields can still get 'Minute of Nazi accuracy' at 1200 yards! :D

The only thing that embarrass me about the old Enfields is how some Canadians talk about them in such a derogatory fashion...pretty shamefull. :mad: IMHO they are still damn fine rifles.
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I agree Calum and had to laugh about the minute of Nazi thing...I was thinking the same thing... ;)
My Long Branches still impress the hell out of me...what a fine rifle!
 
Garand said:
As a RETIRED Ammo tech, I find that I spend more time in the field, than some of those in the Combat Arms. In fact last year I put more C4 down range than the Engineers in Afganistan. Yes I did!

One reason that nobody considered as to why the Forces won't issue the C1 is the relative easy young infanteers (like myself 100 years ago) found to make it go full auto.
Garand said:
Good point! Ask any former militia or soldier and they all have stories about making their C1's fire full auto with McDonald's stir stiks etc etc, against rules but they did it anyway. That may have been a factor in what ended up happening to the stock of C1's...
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stencollector said:
I remember one guy did this to his C1 when we were the rear ech guards waiting for an attack. We were only firing blanks, but the rifle froze up with the action to the rear. At the end of the excersize he had to turn the rifle in with the action still stuck to the rear, and the little wad of tinfoil still located in the trigger mechanism (more details left out cause I don't want to be accused of telling anyone how to make a C1 F/A, although I think anyone with a FN likely already knows, but can't do it cause he can't get an ATT anyhow)
Fortunately for him there was no real way of tracking who had the rifle, and by the time the weapons techs managed to get the rifle opened, he was out of their grasp.
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Hahaha...the rat tail was in the butt so he couldn't open the action to get the evidence out of there...he must have been cra**ing himself...:D
 
7.62 for the Rangers?

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/mp-enfield.htm

ps Non standard ammunition? Big deal, IVI makes it to this day. Why spend a fortune changing calibres when .303 is such a good calibre?


tiriaq said:
A number of years ago, when the inventory of No.4 rifles in Canada suddenly dried up, the possibility of a new rifle was investigated. The Ruger 77 Mk.2 synthetic was considered,with some adaptations. Ruger would do it for an order for 5 000 rifles. The cost was too high, and 5 000 was too many. This is when the decision to purchase No. 4 rifles on the surplus market was made. It would seem that only bolt action rifles are acceptable for Ranger use. Can you suggest any currently available rifle that could be offered in a "patrol" version which would have the qualities of the No. 4? It would even be attractive to have the rifles available in either 5.56 or 7.62, and with a mount to accept optical sights.
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Claven2 said:
WOW, that's an old topic to drag up...???
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I was searching for EAL threads and found this thread from before my time on CGNTZ...it's a very interesting thread and covers lots of topics that interest me to this day...


I thought I might be criticized for dredging this up...:p



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Ranger Rifle Replacement or beef up

Hey here's an idea, get the gov to round up all those RC Mausers plenty still aval... More than enough Bear stopping power, and bolt action good for arctic cold climate. My understanding of why the rangers use Lee Ens in the first place is because a bolt action rifle is preferred in freezing temps use where as a semi is prone to jamming.

:shotgun:
 
K98ACTION said:
Hey here's an idea, get the gov to round up all those RC Mausers plenty still aval... More than enough Bear stopping power, and bolt action good for arctic cold climate. My understanding of why the rangers use Lee Ens in the first place is because a bolt action rifle is preferred in freezing temps use where as a semi is prone to jamming.

:shotgun:
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Why replace an obsolete rifle with an inferior obsolete rifle that's sat in a salt mine for 50 years? I'll keep my issue No4, thanks.
 
buckbrush said:
A #4 is a much better utility rifle than any mauser. When I become dictator of Canada, I will give each Ranger a C1 and an Inglis P-35.
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Good thought but you're a bit late for the C1's...they've been melted to slag already...:bangHead:
 
buckbrush said:
A #4 is a much better utility rifle than any mauser. When I become dictator of Canada, I will give each Ranger a C1 and an Inglis P-35.
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I would trade my No4 for a G3 and a Glock, oh dictator in waiting.:rockOn:
 
Understand that the Govt. shipped a humungous load of Lee Enfields to Firearms Safety Instructors in far N. to do courses, tests. Maybe they could refurbish some of those. I managed to find a bolt for one for instruction there.
I'd like to see an inventory of what the Govt. has squirreled away. Sure hate to see them destroy good firearms. We should be able to buy them.
 
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