Canadian Tire/Walmart Safes. Do they meet restricted storage regs?

kfn said:
AFAIK, nothing in the regulations mentions the word 'safe', it refers to a secure storgae method that cannot be easily broken into. Many of us (the firearms community) seem to automatically assume that it has to be a 'safe' and then it gets debated as to what qualifies as a 'safe' whereas it doesn't need to be; it all boils down to our individual comfort level of security and being in compliance.
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Yes, it does, although it doesnt require one:


Restricted and prohibited firearms

* Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into; or
* Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
* For an automatic firearm, also remove the bolt or bolt carrier (if removable) and lock it in a separate room that is hard to break into.
 
According to the Law

For those that don't readily know, and because CGNers making up definitions for things in the regulations is sometimes not helpful...

The Firearms Act
Sections 117-119 (at least) allow for the creation of "Regulations"

What we now currently have is SOR/98-209 March 24, 1998 titled:
Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of
Firearms by Individuals Regulations (this is pursuant to the firearms act)

This can be found online at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Regulation/S/SOR-98-209.pdf
The Firearms Act can be found online at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Statute/F/F-11.6.pdf

In the regulations, Section 6 specifically refer to "STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS"

It looks like this:

STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS

6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking
device and stored in a container, receptacle or
room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed
so that it cannot readily be broken open or
into, or
(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been
specifically constructed or modified for the secure
storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely
locked; and​
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless
the ammunition is stored, together with or separately
from the firearm, in
(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely
locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily
be broken open or into, or
(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically
constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted
firearms and that is kept securely locked.​
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One has to understand the implication of the "and"s and "or"s for each paragraph and how they relate, but it's not too bad. Basically this regulation is fairly wishy washy, though as there are terms inside that are not defined. (like 'safe', 'vault', 'modified' and 'readily broken open or into' etc.)

Additionally, a CGNer, CFC or CFO employee, judge, wife, neighbor or law enforcement officer will SURELY interpret it differently than the others. Until specific examples within case law occur (a judge makes a decision about something that can be referenced in later cases - a precedence), we basically have to fend for ourselves with the interpretation.

Read the 'Regulations', ignoring folks home grown definitions of this and that, and make an intelligent decision about a storage method that is comfortable for you and the occupants in your dwelling. By all means solicit information on how others currently store them as this may make you more or less comfortable.

Personally, I am very new to this and own only one handgun. I bought a nice floor safe (inside dimensions are about 8.5X11" and 10" tall-ish) that was intended to protect documents in case of fire. I lined the inside with that black toolbox rubber matting (a roll from crappy tire) to prevent dings against the inside. It has an electronic combo that I can readily open in about 5 seconds and I happen to keep some ammo in it (2 loaded mags) as well. The handgun does not have a trigger lock while in the safe. I store other ammo in a locked plastic-type tool box near the safe.

When transporting to the range I put a trigger lock on the handgun and put it in a handgun case (from crappy tire) and put a lock on it. No ammo goes in the box while transporting. My ammo goes in it's normal locked plastic toolbox. I think I go the "extra little bit" for transporting the ammo because that is the most likely time that I may have an incident with a LEO that for some reason may insist he look through my vehicle and find it.

Anyway, that is what I do, and doing it makes me comfortable, and I feel am am following the stated regulations.

Good luck to you and welcome to the club.
 
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My RPAL instructor told me if I trigger locked my 9mm and locked the case it came in, i could legally use it as a center piece on my kitchen table. It is double locked in an opaque case.
 
singleaction said:
Personally, I am very new to this and own only one handgun. I bought a nice floor safe (inside dimensions are about 8.5X11" and 10" tall-ish) that was intended to protect documents in case of fire. I lined the inside with that black toolbox rubber matting (a roll from crappy tire) to prevent dings against the inside. It has an electronic combo that I can readily open in about 5 seconds and I happen to keep some ammo in it (2 loaded mags) as well. The handgun does not have a trigger lock while in the safe. I store other ammo in a locked plastic-type tool box near the safe.

When transporting to the range I put a trigger lock on the handgun and put it in a handgun case (from crappy tire) and put a lock on it. No ammo goes in the box while transporting. My ammo goes in it's normal locked plastic toolbox.
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This is the exact storage and transport method I use, except I do not put a lock on my ammo boxes. I just keep them stored in my basement starewell(except whats in my safe), while all my guns are in my bedroom. I don't know about you but I think 2 doors seperating the ammo from the firearms would be considered seperate. The lock is an extra step worth taking for some but I have way too much ammo to fit in a small lockable box, or safe, and several crates that don't have any way of being locked.
 
mlehtovaara said:
This is the exact storage and transport method I use, except I do not put a lock on my ammo boxes. I just keep them stored in my basement starewell(except whats in my safe), while all my guns are in my bedroom. I don't know about you but I think 2 doors seperating the ammo from the firearms would be considered seperate. The lock is an extra step worth taking for some but I have way too much ammo to fit in a small lockable box, or safe, and several crates that don't have any way of being locked.
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I would agree with you. The gun is not readily accessible to that ammunition. You only need a lock if it is readily accessible. The ammo in the safe is obviously readily accessible and meets the 'together' 'in safe'. I actually have a pile of wolf bullets that are far away in the basement (far from the gun) that are only in the shipping cardboard box. They are not 'readily accessible by the gun'.

A great factor for me is that I also have two little dudes running around the house and wanted to ensure that they wouldn't be playing with the ammo or any light container for the gun. By now, they're familiar with what's in the case and what's in the safe. They've handled the pistol and can rattle off safety procedures and have shot it at the range. Whenever they want to see it, I'll make the time and pull it out. Don't want a mystery for them to want to solve by themselves.
 
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Good policy for the little ones. If you let them see it and shoot it all the time there should be no reason for them to try and sneak around, and such. If only the anti's could hear of you allowing children to touch evil guns. HAHA. That is the kind of attitude that makes the kids want to touch em. They are just boring old tools eventually. Well maby not boring. But tools nonetheless.
 
evan the cdn said:
Cabinets and containers don't necessarily have a locking device. A safe is a cabinet or container that can be locked.
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Whats your point? Buy a padlock! As long as it's not a cardboard box or glass case, you should be o.k.

"a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open"
 
I wonder why everyone in this thread ignores the NFA link I posted which is valid legal advice while rambling about what's legal storage and what's not.
This is a rhetorical question, do not reply
 
Repro77 said:
Yes, it does, although it doesnt require one:


Restricted and prohibited firearms

* Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into; or
* Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
* For an automatic firearm, also remove the bolt or bolt carrier (if removable) and lock it in a separate room that is hard to break into.
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the emphasis should be on OR
 
A gun cabinet is something you don't see much these days - you used to be able to order them from Sears catalogue, along with Lakefield .22's. For those too young to remember, a gun cabinet is a piece of furniture that you would have in your living room. It's made of wood (more typically veneer) and has a gun rack, either vertical or horizontal, behind glass cabinet doors (like a china cabinet) with a decorative "lock", the lower portion had drawers for your ammunition. It was designed to display your firearms in your livingroom or den, for everyone to admire, many of them had special lighting to highlight the firearms within. Boy have things changed, I used to know quite a few people who had these things as features in their livingrooms with shotguns and Bubba'd Enfields, even the odd pistol. At one point you could get matching liquor cabinets, another specialized piece of furniture for the livingroom. I found this picture, just in case you young'uns haven't seen a gun cabinet in real life.

400-FS-Gun-Cabinet.jpg
 
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mlehtovaara said:
Good policy for the little ones. If you let them see it and shoot it all the time there should be no reason for them to try and sneak around, and such. If only the anti's could hear of you allowing children to touch evil guns. HAHA. That is the kind of attitude that makes the kids want to touch em. They are just boring old tools eventually. Well maby not boring. But tools nonetheless.
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I agree. A family that shoots together, stays together.
 
The "stack on" steel cabinet or safe has no approval at law. Each police office will have his/her own opinion. Like yesterday in Barrie court the crown told the judge that all guns have to be stored so as to be theft proof. I corrected that assertion, but the police and crown assert that on a daily, hourly , basis. If you are not sure then just leave a trigger lock on the restricted gun in the stackon. The Canadian court will NOT adopt the California rules on gun storage safety. The RCMP have no list of approved containers. I hope they never do.
 
mouthpiece said:
The "stack on" steel cabinet or safe has no approval at law. Each police office will have his/her own opinion. Like yesterday in Barrie court the crown told the judge that all guns have to be stored so as to be theft proof. I corrected that assertion, but the police and crown assert that on a daily, hourly , basis. If you are not sure then just leave a trigger lock on the restricted gun in the stackon. The Canadian court will NOT adopt the California rules on gun storage safety. The RCMP have no list of approved containers. I hope they never do.
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great point(s)
 
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