Canadian use of M1 Carbine in Korea
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I read Hampton Sides excellent book last winter "On Desperate Ground", and the Marines who had their backs against the wall were retrieving/using Thompsons and M-1s from dead enemy troops that the Chinese had obtained from the guerrilla fighters in China post WW2. Talk about full circle.
One of my favourite American history authors. If you like war history and like Desperate Ground, try Ghost Soldiers.
About 30 years ago Century Arms in Montreal imported a large number of US weapons from China, Lend Lease items from the Chang-Kai-chek era during WW2 that stayed in Mainland China after the commmunist take over. The imports included M-1 Garands, US M-1 carbines, Springfield 1903 rifles (mostly counterbored), Colt 1911 pistols ( a few converted to 7.62 Tokarev) and Inglis Browning Hi-Power pistols. All were reblued instead of being parkerized and stocks refinished with a heavy dark brown lacquer. They were covered in rock hard dried out axle grease, I remember I had very hard time cleaning those, we had to soak them in diesel fuel for a couple of days to get them clean.
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Hey, a must read for Canadians is the very gripping account of our guys heroic stand in Korea on Hill 677, one of the most critical battles in Korea. The book: "Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnason, copyright 2011, published by Dundurn Press.
MapleSugar
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Geez, Private Matthews had a thousand yard stare and he probably wasn't even 20 yet.
I remember reading somewhere that the M1's .30 Carbine 110 gr. rounds didn't penetrate the quilted Chinese uniforms very well in the wintertime.
At least at longer distances that the M1 Garand easily could.
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MapleSugar
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I always find it interesting that we hung on to the LE instead of taking on the American M1 Carbines and Garands.
Do you have a ref for that ? Not doubting just interested in reading more on it.
Just about every YouTube gun person out there.
M1 Carbine Myth
MapleSugar
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Thanks, but I'll take the word of a WW II combat veteran over a "Youtube gun person" any day.
"When the time came for serious shooting, the (M1) carbine just didn't have the poop. I saw too many Germans get hit with the damned little things and just keep on going. The carbine was a light close-in defense weapon carried by machine gunners, bazooka men, mortar men, and officers who didn't want to carry a heavy rifle. They just weren't meant for heavy-duty combat." Sgt. Donald R. Burgett, 1/506th PIR 101st Airborne from Seven Roads to Hell (Bastogne and the Battle of the Bulge)
Sgt. Burgett loved his M1 Garand and Colt 1911 (that his dad sent to him before D-Day.) They never let him down. He used his 1911 when it was too restricted to use the Garand.
I don't remember where I read that the M1 Carbines weren't very effective against the Chinese quilted uniforms in Korea, but it was a veteran's account, too.
MapleSugar
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It's not so much the rifle, as it is the .30 Carbine cartridge that's to blame for the M1 Carbine's reported lack of stopping power. Although, there were reports of problems with the carbines jamming in extremely cold weather (partly as a result of weak return springs and inadequate cartridge recoil impulse due to the subzero temperatures.)
I also don't put any faith in a report that blames a soldier's aim with a particular rifle for it's lack of stopping power, when I'm not aware of any similar failures with the Garand or Thompson. Especially when the soldiers reported delivering multiple torso hits with the M1 Carbine and they failed to incapacitate their enemy.
McManus, p. 52, "Richard Lovett, of the U.S. Americal Division (Pacific Theater), was one of several who did not like the carbine. "It didn't have stopping power. Enemy soldiers were shot many times but kept on coming."
There were numerous after action reports from U.S. paratroopers (dating from 1943 until the fall/winter of 1944) that stated that the .30 Carbine lacked sufficient stopping power. Those guys were highly trained and crack shots. For an army report to suggest that they experienced "marksmanship degradation under stress" is an extreme insult to them. Even if that report was commissioned during the Korean War, the observations of front-line combat soldiers from WW II were still relevant.
There used to be a video on YouTube of Don Burgett stating that anyone he hit in the torso with a .30 cal (from his M1 Garand) went down and stayed down. He didn't like the M1 Carbine's stopping power and neither did a multitude of others that actually used them in combat.
For it's intended role as a close-range support weapon, the M1 Carbine might have been adequate. Some troops loved them for clearing buildings and jungle fighting.
It was supposedly popular in Korea for night patrols (as we can see with Private Matthews of the RCR.) It would have been a lot lighter than a Thompson and a lot more maneuverable than a Garand.
I've never shot one, but I have held several and inspected them closely. I can't attest to their performance, but I certainly give precedence to the observations and experiences of soldiers that saw how they performed in actual combat over anyone else that hasn't.
For that reason, I'd pass on one if it's purpose was to defend my life and I had a better option available. I just hope that Private Matthew's M1 Carbine served him well and he made it home safe and sound.
The Korean War wasn't mentioned much when I was young and I can't recall ever meeting a veteran of it.
Those Canadian soldiers that served there deserve to be remembered and respected. Just like in every other war.
Then as now, they deserve(d) the best that we can give them to get the job done and make it home alive.
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