Cancelations

[Walter Hornby]

I am going to throw my two cents in here even if this is an Ontario thing. when we went to online registration for IPSC Alberta we looked at at CC providers and sites that offer this service. it was very expensive. not only do you have to pay their fees, you have to pay their monthly contract fees and buy/rent a cc machine from them. i do not remember the number but it was creeeping up to around $15 a shooter based on our average of 60 shooters a match if i remember correctly.

We looked at a couple of sites that provided this service, (FRAUD ALERT) and another one. I wouldn't use (FRAUD ALERT) because at any point they could decide that we were an evil firearm business and freeze our account. the other site we looked at was even more money then a setting up a credit card account!

We finally said no CC but that we would accept EMT's on my personall acount then just write IPSC Alberta a cheque (this was a peice of cake because of the way the bank keeps track of EMTs.)

We do a couple of things different then Ontario. first off all our level two matches are coordinated by IPSC Alberta. It doesn't take long to figure out who is just booking matches because they can. the other thing we did was that if you did not pay within one week of the match you didn't get squaded. People quickly learned that we were serious about that. We got lots of calls at first from shooters saying but you know us, you know we will pay at the match. However we stuck to our guns and the problem has retty much gone away.

 

[stormbringer]

$People seem to want to run it as a side hobby, and after things don't start to go all perfect, then they get all pissy.. .

Correction...........when in the interests of a hobby they invest hundreds of man hours that could be spent on other persuits, in an endeavor to further the sport by attempt organizing events without which said sport would cease to exist.

When their reward for this effort is to be treated like $hit and to be $hit upon........

Then they get all pissy..................


With regard to value for service. This match was INDOORS HEATED AND IN WINTER! 78 ROUNDS in FIVE STAGES!! Cost $15 which included ICS Fees!

 

[Madness]

That there's a good deal. If it starts to cost $30 for a 5 or less stage level 2 that's under 70 rounds there won't be any squading issues due to the lack of shooters.

 

[ckc123]

CKC123 amico;

I heartily concur with most of your post. The exception being the $5. To some it is nothing. To others it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back when added to the other costs: match fees, transportation, ammunition, etc.

True.. but any business that increases its prices faces this as well.. We participate in an expensive sport. If $5 is going to push the shooter over the edge, then there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Madness]

Every match has no-shows, even majors where you don't get a refund on a $200+ fee, that's just the way it is. Yesterday morning was one of those random ####ty events that pop up from time to time. I've had to bail out of matches a few days before hand due to various reasons( work, deaths, gun issues) you can't really plan for that. How many times have people not shown up for a match due to dangerous driving conditions? How do you factor that into match plans?
Omens site is a great tool but it also opened up a new can of worms, there are people who sign up for squads so they have a spot if there isn't anything else to do that day and they decide to go shoot. How do we solve this?? there could be a temporary system ban for not showing up and not canceling multiple times, but that will only solve the surprise no-shows. People will still bail the day before from time to time.
On bigger outdoor ranges this could be solved by only having one shotgun start, which would mean bigger squads and more time at the range but no-shows won't matter.
I say take it with a grain of salt, yeah having the majority of a squad not show up is ####ty but it isn't a chunk of the sky falling either.[/COLOR]

 

[ckc123]

Correction...........when in the interests of a hobby they invest hundreds of man hours that could be spent on other persuits, in an endeavor to further the sport by attempt organizing events without which said sport would cease to exist.

When their reward for this effort is to be treated like $hit and to be $hit upon........

Then they get all pissy..................


With regard to value for service. This match was INDOORS HEATED AND IN WINTER! 78 ROUNDS in FIVE STAGES!! Cost $15 which included ICS Fees!

Wow Storm.. you certainly have put yourself up high on that pedistal, so we can kiss your ring to shoot one of your matches..

Don't let the pedistal impail you on the A$$ when reality kicks you off of it..


The fact is that IPSC has been around before you started, and it will be around a lot longer after any one of is is gone.. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it will stop just because you stopped doing us a favour by hosting a match.

 

[Madness]

extra 10 for membership (so what its only 10 bucks) X family members
extra 5 ewhen you shoot a match ( so what its only 5 bucks) X how many matches you shoot/ how many of your family members also shoot
= a drop in match attendance and memberships.

The more we nickle and dime everyone, the less people there will be to nickle and dime.
If you can't afford an extra few bucks then oh well, when does it stop? $40 for indoor 4 stage 60 round level 2's? Its only an extra $20, whats $20 compared to the total price of a shooters gun and gear and the ammo they use, chump change. Sure some of can afford it but you can lick my taint if you think I'll pay that much for a small match.

 

[ckc123]

If you can't afford an extra few bucks then oh well, when does it stop? $40 for indoor 4 stage 60 round level 2's? Its only an extra $20, whats $20 compared to the total price of a shooters gun and gear and the ammo they use, chump change. Sure some of can afford it but you can lick my taint if you think I'll pay that much for a small match.

Where are you getting number like this from??? $40 is not even a realistic example.. If you are going to be sarcastic, at least be in the same ball park.

Have you even considered the increased costs for the range to hold a match? target prices have gone up.. Wood and Constructions materials have gone up.. Heating and Elect. Prices have gone up.. But an extra few dollars is out of the question?? What’s next.. Are you going to say that making $400 on a match is too much, and your fleecing the shooters?.

There is so much emphasis being placed on the round count. I would rather shoot a 40 stage match with great props and original design then a 80 round run and gun that I've seen at 10 other ranges in the last year.. Look at everyone who I've asked about the NB provincials.. not a singe person said "hey it's a large round count".. they all said "You have to go, cause they put on one hell of a match with great designs and props.."

The value and what you can charge for it, is not just the round count.

 

[arancio]

No one who works their but off to put on a match should have to wear Kevlar and asbestos for verbalizing disappointment with the mouth breathers amongst us.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone, eh?

 

[stormbringer]

Wow Storm.. you certainly have put yourself up high on that pedistal, so we can kiss your ring to shoot one of your matches..

Don't let the pedistal impail you on the A$$ when reality kicks you off of it..


The fact is that IPSC has been around before you started, and it will be around a lot longer after any one of is is gone.. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it will stop just because you stopped doing us a favour by hosting a match.

Oh have no fear..........I will never host a match for the likes of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_non_grata I do not believe you have ever been to a match at EESA. Lets just do each other a favour and keep it that way in the future.


In speaking with the MDs of other clubs I have seen a trend to the same attitude.......Why bother to do it when there are people like you around.

Now if there was some way to keep your kind from poisoning the good natured attiude that most shooters have....then we might have hope. However the good people tend to be drowned out by the AH types such as yourself.

The match this weekend was put on in an EFFORT to get more people classified under the ICS system. Thus there were limitations on the stages which is why we pushed the envelope in terms of making it attractive in terms of round count.

 

[Madness]

weally? I've paid 25 and 30 to shoot Level 2 's in ontario that I felt were over priced, so we kick in an extra 5, now matches are 30 and 35 next year another 5 is added for some reason becuase it's only 5. Round count doesn't really matter as long as the stage offers a challenge. If not, well you can spend thousands on it with cool props and wild paint but it will still be a #### stage and a waste of effort
and yes I feel that a $400 profit from a level 2 is a bit high

 

[Madness]

Classifier matches are going to have a low round count regardless, as soon as its called a classifier match anyone with their head not in their ass is aware of that fact.

 

[ckc123]

Oh have no fear..........I will never host a match for the likes of you.

Great.. then the rest of the people like me.. who do volenteer at matches, and do go the extra mile to help out, will go shoot else where..

I have no problem with those who do or do not volenteer. To each there own.. what I have a problem with is the attutide you are displaying, in that everyone should be gratefull to you for putting on a match. You seem to think you are doing us a favour by putting on a match.. That exact attitude is what I have a problem with.

You don't know me, nor the help that I give others when it comes to IPSC matches. I don't go around expecting others to kiss my ass when I volenteer.. maybe you should look up the definition of volenteer..

 

[stormbringer]

Man are you ever spun......

Where did I say that I wanted people to help at this match?

What I am pissed off about is people signing up and then NOT SHOWING UP!

True crap happens and that I can see.........howeever I think it is more a case as was suggested above that people are signing up WAY in advance and then not showing up.

Of course you do not expect others to kiss your ass.......how can they....your head is in the way!

 

[ckc123]

weally? I've paid 25 and 30 to shoot Level 2 's in ontario that I felt were over priced, so we kick in an extra 5, now matches are 30 and 35 next year another 5 is added for some reason becuase it's only 5.

I really don't know where you are getting fixated on this extra cost.. you seem to think that just cause I suggested that someone could offer a credit card service (and a wild guess at 5 bucks extra) that it's a done deal, and that everyone would do it. Or that some clubs would not just absorb the cost. There are may ways to skin a cat. but you seem very fixated with this $5.. you seem insinuate that the prices are all going to skyrocket, just cause someone would want to charge extra for a value added service at a match.

As for the $400, at a level 2, I would feel insulted if it was less.. how can you honestly expect a club to put all the effort like a level 2, and show $200 at the end of the day. They would not survive, and stop holding matches after 6-12 months.. unless they see a good profit, and reason to spend more $$ on props, etc, then they won't do it, and you have some simple, cheap matches that are not exciting, and no one really wants to go to , cause it's not an exciting match.

I was at a level 1 match recently that was $20. it had 5 stages, about 90 rounds.. it took between 3-4 hours to shoot the match, (and another 5 hours to RO the other half of the match) and was well worth the $$ spent on the match. they made about $600 on the match and spent $200 back on improvements (which will show at later matches). It's a business, if they don't see a profit then they will never improve, and you will never see better matches from them.. $20/3 hours.. you can't even get to see a movie at that price ratio.. I would rather spend 3 hours at a range, then in a theater.

 

[stormbringer]

STOP IT CK!!

One more post like that I and I will have to agree with you!!

 

[ckc123]

STOP IT CK!!

One more post like that I and I will have to agree with you!!

Hey.. I'm only 10% a$$hole.. the rest of the time people tend to like me (I don't know why.)

Getting back on topic.. I think the only way to prevent things like late cancellations is to have some type of penalty (Monetary, or preference on squads..) and if the person does it enough times then they "marked"..

Personally I think it's a lack of respect for the match organizor to not even call (even if it's last minute cancellation) to let them know you won't be showing up..

 

[rob870]

Wow Storm.. you certainly have put yourself up high on that pedistal, so we can kiss your ring to shoot one of your matches..

Don't let the pedistal impail you on the A$$ when reality kicks you off of it..


The fact is that IPSC has been around before you started, and it will be around a lot longer after any one of is is gone.. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it will stop just because you stopped doing us a favour by hosting a match.

I don't think that Storm or any other MD has ever expected the shooters to "kiss their ring" to shoot a match. However I do believe that we should all apperciate the work that people put into hosting a match.

Your comments certainly show that you have no respect for the people who give their time to promote our sport. You have no idea about the work that goes into hosting an IPSC match, if you did you would understand Storm's frustration.

IPSC will not stop if anyone person "stopped doing us a favour by hosting a match" but unlike you I'd like to thank Storm for his work.

Rob

 

[ckc123]

any other MD has

we should all apperciate the work that people put into hosting a match.

frustration.

(and yes, the sentiments I'm saying are a carry over from a different thread)
1) I never said "any MD" or any other match..
2) I never said I didn't appreciate it.. I'm just of the opinion that you can't tell someone thier opinion does not count because they didn't volenteer.
3) I know it's very frustrating, but when the impression you set is "I'm doing you a favour by hosting a match" then don't expect compassion when people don't show up.

Actually if you use the search you will see that I started a thread like this about 6 months ago, and mentioned that people who cancel at the last minute should not get prefrence on the online booking.. (But this idea was shot down by everyone.. so what do I know....)

 

[relliott]

I think that people who make appointments and don't keep them, or are habitually late for everything show a lack of respect for others. That's no problem so long as that lack of respect has no impact on others, but that is rarely the case. When people are counting on you to be there; have put in time and effort in advance of you being there, it is seriously un-cool to just arbitrarily blow them off and not offer the simple consideration of a cancellation.

To me, a simple policy of say...48 hours notice of cancellation would be fair and reasonable. If you don't show and don't cancel in advance you should still be on the hook for the match fee. If you don't want to cough up the match fee, you loose your on-line sign up privileges for say, six months or the rest of the season...or whatever is decided. You can still shoot the next match, but you have to pay in advance whereas everyone else who plays fair gets first dibs at the squads. Paying in advance could be done the old fashioned way, or e-pay, or whatever works for everyone. No extra fees need apply; only the fees that should have been paid in the first place.