CANCELLED-AFRA Precision Rifle Match in 2015

I'm definitely interested Jay. I just can't commit yet because the dates are too far away and I have no idea what my work schedule will look like. You can pencil me in though. I already have the application.
 
Excel said:
Not much! One AFRA member has signed up plus the two organizers but I am hopeful things will pickup after the Calgary Gun Show.

Jay
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FWIW, myself and another will likely attend. May have another couple of guys who would be interested as well.

How many shooters would need to attend to make this a go?
 
My brother and I are TR shooters, off our elbows, with 223 & 308 scoped target rifles. What we were hoping to do is to start a rifle match on the AFRA 900m range that is different from the conventional DRCA style of target shooting. We have to work within the APRA and AFRA range rules which restrict us to using the fixed butts and fixed firing points from 100m / 200m / 300m / 400m / 500m / 600m / 700m / 800m and 900m and no steel targets.
As long as we shoot from the fixed firing points, we can use barricades, barrels, bipods, tripods, slings, standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, strong side, weak side, rapid fire, slow fire etc as long as it is safe!
This first match is really an experiment to see if there is any interest in this type of shooting and if people are willing to participate and, more importantly, help running these matches. If it is successful, we could have matches 2 or 3 times a year and maybe even in the winter provided the snow is not too deep and we can access the range, like it has been this year.

So basically we will run the match on July 11th & 12th, even if it is just the three of us.

Jay
 
Excel said:
My brother and I are TR shooters, off our elbows, with 223 & 308 scoped target rifles. What we were hoping to do is to start a rifle match on the AFRA 900m range that is different from the conventional DRCA style of target shooting. We have to work within the APRA and AFRA range rules which restrict us to using the fixed butts and fixed firing points from 100m / 200m / 300m / 400m / 500m / 600m / 700m / 800m and 900m and no steel targets.
As long as we shoot from the fixed firing points, we can use barricades, barrels, bipods, tripods, slings, standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, strong side, weak side, rapid fire, slow fire etc as long as it is safe!
This first match is really an experiment to see if there is any interest in this type of shooting and if people are willing to participate and, more importantly, help running these matches. If it is successful, we could have matches 2 or 3 times a year and maybe even in the winter provided the snow is not too deep and we can access the range, like it has been this year.

So basically we will run the match on July 11th & 12th, even if it is just the three of us.

Jay
Click to expand...

Thanks for your efforts in trying to get this going.


I see this as a terrific opportunity for us in S. Alberta to finally have some local matches to attend. The only issue for some is that it is scheduled the same day as the Poker Rally shoot. I know of guys who will be attending it instead.
 
You probably would have had more interest in this type of shooting if the APRA and AFRA hadn't kicked 70 or so members to the curb like you did with the CSRA.

Regardless, even when the CSRA had run the DCRA precision program, as you well know Jay, turnout was at best a dozen shooters.
 
beltfed said:
Regardless, even when the CSRA had run the DCRA precision program, as you well know Jay, turnout was at best a dozen shooters.
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You are right, in the last few years of the CSRA we could only get 3 or 4 shooters to a Precision Rifle Match. Hopefully I can garner some interest, but if not so be it.
 
I know what I'm going to say is probably going to get me attacked and be unpopular, but here goes nothing.

The BC Precision matches have COF that are interesting and we are getting SOME attendance (I know they would still like it higher). We are getting people traveling in from fair distances away (including from Alberta) to the event.

There is another "Precision" type match in Alberta, I forget the name of it and I couldn't find the post on here. But they sold out last year on the first day entries were open. I tried to get in on it and couldn't because it was sold out.

So I think the main questions are why people are willing to travel for the BC events and go to the other Alberta event but not to this event. For me the answer is simple, it's the COF.

BC Precision Match Mainland COF 2015: Link BC Precision Match Mainland COF

I was all excited about this Alberta Match especially one with longer distances, and I know I wasn't the only one in BC that felt this way. I was completely sincere about making the trip to this event, until you posted the COF.

This event is NOT a Precision Rifle Match, this is a rapid fire F-Class match.

Your basic COF for this event - DCRA style TR target centers (1 moa V bull)
-- 2 non-convertible sighters and 10 shots on score in 3 minutes with one magazine change.
-- rapid fire 10 shots in 1 1/2 minutes with one magazine change.
AND REPEAT......

I have ZERO interest in shooting a static TR target as fast a possible, there is nothing interesting about that at all.

You need to have none-TR targets, some moving target, some snap shooting, etc, etc.

The Precision Rifle Match on Vancouver Island last year was a much more condensed match compared to the Precision Match on the mainland (Vokes), and it was an awesome event. They didn't do the big extensive COF write up, they did a lot of 2 shot rapid fire stuff, etc.

I think the model the Van Island Match followed is a lot easier and more realistic to reproduce then what they are running at Vokes for organizers new to this type of event. Link Van Island Match Thread

Put together a decent COF and more people will be interested. Sorry but this COF sucks (just my opinion), it's not a Precision Match, it's a rapid fire F-Class match.
 
marcoman said:
Thanks for your efforts in trying to get this going.


I see this as a terrific opportunity for us in S. Alberta to finally have some local matches to attend. The only issue for some is that it is scheduled the same day as the Poker Rally shoot. I know of guys who will be attending it instead.
Click to expand...

Echoing marcoman's statement! Thanks. We needed someone like you to step up here in S. Alberta to get things going. Sadly I am attending the poker rally shoot this day or else I would have been happy to grab a coffee and brain storm some ideas. In fact, I still am!

Are there any possibilities for getting guys up off the ground and onto barricades, shooting off barrels, weakhand etc?

Is the COF as it stands now something set in stone? This is a really great opportunity to grow this into something great. I have loads of ideas, just not sure if any of them run opposite to the clubs rules etc...
 
ARH77 said:
I know what I'm going to say is probably going to get me attacked and be unpopular, but here goes nothing.

The BC Precision matches have COF that are interesting and we are getting SOME attendance (I know they would still like it higher). We are getting people traveling in from fair distances away (including from Alberta) to the event.

There is another "Precision" type match in Alberta, I forget the name of it and I couldn't find the post on here. But they sold out last year on the first day entries were open. I tried to get in on it and couldn't because it was sold out.

So I think the main questions are why people are willing to travel for the BC events and go to the other Alberta event but not to this event. For me the answer is simple, it's the COF.

BC Precision Match Mainland COF 2015: Link BC Precision Match Mainland COF

I was all excited about this Alberta Match especially one with longer distances, and I know I wasn't the only one in BC that felt this way. I was completely sincere about making the trip to this event, until you posted the COF.

This event is NOT a Precision Rifle Match, this is a rapid fire F-Class match.

Your basic COF for this event - DCRA style TR target centers (1 moa V bull)
-- 2 non-convertible sighters and 10 shots on score in 3 minutes with one magazine change.
-- rapid fire 10 shots in 1 1/2 minutes with one magazine change.
AND REPEAT......

I have ZERO interest in shooting a static TR target as fast a possible, there is nothing interesting about that at all.

You need to have none-TR targets, some moving target, some snap shooting, etc, etc.

The Precision Rifle Match on Vancouver Island last year was a much more condensed match compared to the Precision Match on the mainland (Vokes), and it was an awesome event. They didn't do the big extensive COF write up, they did a lot of 2 shot rapid fire stuff, etc.

I think the model the Van Island Match followed is a lot easier and more realistic to reproduce then what they are running at Vokes for organizers new to this type of event. Link Van Island Match Thread

Put together a decent COF and more people will be interested. Sorry but this COF sucks (just my opinion), it's not a Precision Match, it's a rapid fire F-Class match.
Click to expand...

You make a lot of good points but I think everyone has to look at this as an evolutionary process.

The COF will somewhat be dictated by the range template. Incorperating "movers" into this match would be difficult to achieve.
The addition of a barricade or some improvised positional shooting is certainly an easy addition to make to break up the monotony of shooting prone at static targets. These are things that can be worked out.

Like anything it has to start from somewhere.
 
marcoman said:
You make a lot of good points but I think everyone has to look at this as an evolutionary process.

The COF will somewhat be dictated by the range template. Incorperating "movers" into this match would be difficult to achieve.
The addition of a barricade or some improvised positional shooting is certainly an easy addition to make to break up the monotony of shooting prone at static targets. These are things that can be worked out.

Like anything it has to start from somewhere.
Click to expand...

I very much appreciate the effort people are going through to make these events happen. I've done organization on volunteer group events before (not shooting related) I know how much work it is and how thankless of a job it is.

Let me be clear, Thank You to the organizers of this. I appreciate your effort and work.

I just don't like that the thread is going to the "no one is interested in precision matches" tone. I don't feel that's the case here, I think there is a lack of interest in this match because the COF isn't interesting. The F-Class shooters aren't going to be interested in competing in this match and the COF isn't appealing to the precision people. The problem it's it doesn't fit either discipline.

I'd be happy to help the organizers with a COF if they want, for either this year or next. I would really like to see more precision events in western Canada.
 
Here are some stages borrowed from the Bushnell Brawl and modified a little:

5 Dots on Paper

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 20 seconds
Description: On the gun command, shooters will have 20 seconds to fire on round per dot on their target.
Target: 3/4" dots
Position: Weak side barricade supported
Points: 5
Distance: 100 yards
Rifle Rounds: 5


Barricades (short range)

Prep Time: 1 minute
Completion Time: 2 minutes
Description: Shooters will engage the 1″ dot with one round from a port with an opening no more than 5" off the ground (prone position). From the lowest step, they will engage the bottom 2″ circle with three rounds. After retrieving the next 3 rounds, the shooter will engage the middle 4″ target from the middle step. This will be repeated for the highest step on the 6" highest target.
Position: Multiple
Points: 10
Distance: 200 yards
Rifle Rounds: 10


Know Your Limits (Short Range)

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 1.5 minute
Description: 1 point for first target, 2 points for a hit on second target, 3 points for a hit on third target, and 4 points for hit on fourth target. A miss results in the loss of all accumulated points.
Target: 4", 3", 2" and 1" dots
Position: Prone Strong Side
Points: 10
Distance: 300 yards
Rifle Rounds: 4

This stage is indicated


Hunter of Gunmen

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 1.5 minutes
Description: Shooters will engage the target with two rounds from each three different positions using a tripod rifles rest (a 4x4 with a 'v' in the top and 'x' frame legs tall enough for kneeling height if you don't have this). Shoots two shots through a port on the barricade and two the left side and the right side moving the tripos as needed. Left side must be shot left handed, right side must be shot rights handed using the barricade as cover.
Target: head portion of a full sized IPSC target
Position: Multiple
Points: 6
Distance: 300 yards


Standing Unsupported

Prep Time: none
Completion Time: 2 minute
Description: The shooter will engage a full sized IPSC target from the standing position with 5 rounds.
Position: Standing unsupported. Slings and bags allowed
Points: 10
Distance: 400 yards
Rifle Rounds: 10

Kneeling

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 1.5 minutes
Description: The shooter will engage the 400 yard steel target with 5 rounds from the slung supported kneeling position. This is a traditional kneeling position. Use of a structure that simulates high vegetation is encouraged. NO BAGS of any kind.
Target: Full sized IPSC target
Position: Kneeling with a sling
Points: 10
Distance: 400 yards
Rifle Rounds: 10

Rooftops from Hell

Prep Time: none
Completion Time: 2.5 minutes
Description: Four 45 degree simulated rooftops (ramps) slanted left, right and facing down and up range. One 60 degree ramp, ramp side facing up range. Shooters will engage the target from each of the provided rooftops with three rounds. The shooters will only be able to use the rooftops themselves. No support structures can be used. Additionally, no bags of any kind can be used for any purpose. Bolts can only be closed once the shooter is in position.
Target: Full IPSC target (or similar)
Position: multiple
Points: 15
Distance: 500 yards
Rifle Rounds: 15

Barricades on November

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 1.5 minutes
Description: Shooters will engage the target with 5 rounds from each of the steps on the barricade (3 step barricade).
Target: Full IPSC target (or similar)
Position: multiple
Points: 15
Distance: 600 yards
Rifle Rounds: 15 rounds

Know Your Limits (Long Range)

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 1.5 minute
Description: Shooters will engage 4 progressively smaller dots. 1 point for first target, 2 points for a hit on second target, 3 points for a hit on third target, and 4 points for hit on fourth target. A miss results in the loss of all accumulated points.
Target: 10", 8", 4" and 2" dots
Position: Prone Strong Side
Points: 10
Distance: 700 yards
Rifle Rounds: 10

This stage is indicated


800/900/1000 yards Stages

Prep Time: 30 seconds
Completion Time: 40 seconds
Description: Shooters will engage the 800/900/1000 yard with 10 rounds
Target: Full IPSC target (or similar)
Position: Prone Strong Side
Points: 5/5/5
Distance: 800/900/1000 yards
Rifle Rounds: 15

There are lots of stages, but they are short stages and on most the shooters can shoot simultaneously. Having many distances is intentional. Keep the shooters moving; all gear and ammo must be carried with the shooter in a small pack or similar. Make the shooters pull back their bolts (or apply their safety latch on a semi) when changing positions on or around the barricades. Muzzles are to be pointed downrange before the bolts are closed (or safety disengaged on semis).

No sighters, no wind flags. No scoring zones on the targets (anything on paper is a hit), so you don't have to indicate anything (except the KYL stages) or send back scores during the match. Write the competitor's number on the targets and change them after after so many rounds if necessary. Have the butts people put patches with the distance numbers marked on them on the IPSC targets so the shooters know where they were hitting at each distance. Have the butts people enter the scores on score sheets and patch at the end of each stage. Review the scores with the shooters at the end of the match in the butts.
 
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