canik

TDC said:
Not degrading just honest. People ask for opinions and I will give mine and I usually support it with fact as well. An unknown Turkish company making knock offs of a less than stellar design and yet some here still think they're a sound choice? Give your head a shake. Some open discussion and a dose of common sense just might save someone new to shooting the disappointment that surely lies in such a product.



Tdc
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Please share as to why the CZ 75 based pistol is less then stellar TDC? I have owned a Shadow SP01 since 2008 and have never bought a replacement part for it other then a reduced power recoil spring, I shoot PPC with it, have thousands of rounds through it along with .22 conversion that has near 15000 rounds through it as well. This has been the only handgun that I have bought new and actually kept, it is very accurate, very reliable and there is no shortage of parts and accessories out there if ever needed, 21 X shots at my last match :cool:

Have you owned any of the CZ 75's?
 
In case you guy's didn't know, Canik makes NATO approved pistols and have military contracts so to say they aren't quality is ridiculous. Canik is to CZ as Girsan is to Beretta.
 
MET said:
Please share as to why the CZ 75 based pistol is less then stellar TDC? I have owned a Shadow SP01 since 2008 and have never bought a replacement part for it other then a reduced power recoil spring, I shoot PPC with it, have thousands of rounds through it along with .22 conversion that has near 15000 rounds through it as well. This has been the only handgun that I have bought new and actually kept, it is very accurate, very reliable and there is no shortage of parts and accessories out there if ever needed, 21 X shots at my last match :cool:

Have you owned any of the CZ 75's?
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just out of curiousity how many rounds do you have through your centerfire cz?
 
MET said:
Please share as to why the CZ 75 based pistol is less then stellar TDC? I have owned a Shadow SP01 since 2008 and have never bought a replacement part for it other then a reduced power recoil spring, I shoot PPC with it, have thousands of rounds through it along with .22 conversion that has near 15000 rounds through it as well. This has been the only handgun that I have bought new and actually kept, it is very accurate, very reliable and there is no shortage of parts and accessories out there if ever needed, 21 X shots at my last match :cool:

Have you owned any of the CZ 75's?
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I've never owned any CZ pistols and there's valid reason why. For starters I have shot a fair number of them and witnessed many more at matches or on a course. The downside to CZ pistols starts with the recessed or reversed slide to frame fit. Sure it lowers the bore axis and makes for a smaller profile, but it also makes grasping the slide a fair bit challenging. The "melted" or "dehorned" edges on the controls make them slick and difficult to manipulate under less than ideal conditions. Manual safeties are archaic and not necessary, same goes for exposed hammers. I've seen close to a dozen CZ pistols break internal parts, many of which were plastic. The SA on the 75 and 85 series is nothing to rave about, and the DA although smooth and relatively light is very long. There is no provision(on older models) for an attached light. The ones witnessed on a course all failed several times. Not exactly the best option and that's from the original manufacturer.

Pistolwhiptricks said:
In case you guy's didn't know, Canik makes NATO approved pistols and have military contracts so to say they aren't quality is ridiculous. Canik is to CZ as Girsan is to Beretta.
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Interesting, which fine militaries are running these? Canik and Girsan are both untested brands with almost unknown history. Its your money, but I for one will stick to known manufacturers and proven designs.

TDC
 
The Turkish military and National Police use Girsan pistols - most of the Turkish (military) arms industry was set up by H&K. The Turks used the G3, MP5 and are now using the 416, all made in a plant built by HK using HK machinery and set up and trained by HK staff. If the Girsan was crap, it wouldn't stay in service with the Turks, they've been fighting a low intensity counter terrorist war for 20+ years. Probably the most under rated military in the world.
 
I already think these are perfectly serviceable pistols at an extremely attractive price point. If the odd person thinks they suck that is their prerogative.
Let's get them in Canada and see what happens.
 
The only problem with these is they will be too close in price point to the original. Im guessing they will be a touch over $400 if they ever come. Im pretty sure ive seen CZ's for right around $600. Didnt Canadaammo have them at one time for $599 ? Same with those charter arms revolvers. For $100 more you can buy a Ruger which is a far better gun. We will have to see the quality. If they are on par with the CZ it would be worth it. Didnt someone mention they had a lightweight version as well? Innovations on the original design would also influence people to give them a try.
 
enefgee said:
The Turkish military and National Police use Girsan pistols - most of the Turkish (military) arms industry was set up by H&K. The Turks used the G3, MP5 and are now using the 416, all made in a plant built by HK using HK machinery and set up and trained by HK staff. If the Girsan was crap, it wouldn't stay in service with the Turks, they've been fighting a low intensity counter terrorist war for 20+ years. Probably the most under rated military in the world.
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So what. They run Hk products, that doesn't make them well trained or well equipped. Cz's and Beretta's are dated designs that are far from optimal. Can't see a copy being any better than the original.

TDC
 
TDC said:
So what. They run Hk products, that doesn't make them well trained or well equipped. Cz's and Beretta's are dated designs that are far from optimal. Can't see a copy being any better than the original.

TDC
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They're both well trained and well equipped, you're making the same mistake that the British made in WW1, remember how well that turned out.
 
RUPZUK said:
Fair enough, What is your proven design and who is your known manufacturers?
Thanks
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Read below his posts. Glock, simple to use simple to maintain, runs forever, tons of parts for it, very upgradeble, light weight he has a point.

My top pick is a bit more exotic, HK pistols for me. But my recommendation to most people for handguns would be glock as well. HKs are expensive, glocks, lot more attainable, lot easier to maintain.

If you must buy murican s&w m&p, personally I despise it, but being essentially a glock copy it works almost as well as a glock, the end.

If you want a more common da/sa consider a sig 226 for the same money? Used by spec ops in multiple top tier g8 countries including our own. Same money as a cz75, lots of replacement parts, way more dependable.

Dont get me wrong I love cz rifles, love my 858, IMO the 452/455 are the best rimfire bolts, love their centerfire bolts as well, but their pistols, I wouldn't depend my life on it.

I would fully trust a glock, HK, or german made SIG 226 to keep me alive if the proverbial fecal matter hits the fan.

I wouldn't trust a cz75 made by cz let alone a clone made by a no name company that started less than 2 decades ago.
 
RUPZUK said:
Fair enough, What is your proven design and who is your known manufacturers?
Thanks
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ztunelover pretty well listed all the brands worth considering. However, even the original Beretta and CZ pistols are of better quality than the copies offered out of Turkey. Taurus seems to make a nearly equal quality Beretta copy, but they cost almost as much as the genuine article as well. Neither design is overly well proven nor intelligently designed, just better quality than the copies.

TDC
 
TDC said:
ztunelover pretty well listed all the brands worth considering. However, even the original Beretta and CZ pistols are of better quality than the copies offered out of Turkey. Taurus seems to make a nearly equal quality Beretta copy, but they cost almost as much as the genuine article as well. Neither design is overly well proven nor intelligently designed, just better quality than the copies.

TDC
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Considering that Taurus builds it's Beretta clone on Beretta equipment, it should be alright...they bought out the plant and tooling when Beretta finished their contract to supply the Brazilian armed forces :). The 92 is basically a mid 50's design buffed up a bit, so it's not going to run with the newer designs. It was probably a decent choice in the 80's when the american's adopted it, but it wouldn't be a front runner today. I have to say i'd take a CZ 75 over it as a service pistol. Most of the breakage i see on CZ's is from either high volume competition shooting (which they where not designed for) or more often as a result of poorly thought out modifications to the design. I would argue that both designs are well proven in their proper usage, but are also both dated and could be replaced by a number of more modern, less expensive and more reliable designs.
 
What about the IWI Jericho 941. If a country is surrounded on all sides by other countries/factions who are aiming for their ultimate destruction, I would think that they would make firearms that are 150% reliable and damn near indestructable (a la Kalashnikov). The Jericho is based off the CZ75 platform...so the CZ must be a pretty descent platform, right?
If you were to purchase a pistol for accuracy, comfort, price point ($700 or less OTD), durability and looks (cause we all know looks comes into play).....what would you buy? (Be objective...not a brand fan boi :p )
 
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