Cannon regs...?

I

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Hi all,

I'm sure this has been covered in the past, but a couple of searches didn't turn up the info that I thought I had seen before...

What are the exact laws re: black powder cannons?

To my way of thinking, as long as they are flint; fuse; or touch-hole ignition, pretty much anything goes, anywhere in Canada, with no need for any paperwork.

A friend and I got into a debate the other night, and he feels there are some restrictions, ie: plugging the touch-hole during transport\storage (with a set-screw, or equiv.); bore-size limits; and papers required.

Anyway, the point I tried to get across to him was that, regardless of the exact laws as they apply to cannons, everything depends on any given police officer's interpretation at any given time.

I'd like to have a hard copy of that section of the firearms law so that I can show him, and the "any given police officer", if it ever came to that :)

I have a small cannon (the "Old Ironsides" .45 that S.I.R. used to sell), but I haven't taken it out to fire for years. I'm ex-Field Arty, and don't really like the naval carriage... I wanna bigger one, like, say, a 9-pounder on a field carriage :)


Cheers,

Jim
 
AFAIK black powder cannons fall into the prescribed antique category UNLESS they have a percussion ignition system. No bore size limits, storage hassles, or licensing needed.
 
I bought a 6 pounder on a carriage, and we shoot it at my uncles farm...we actually use old 5 pin bowling balls, they can be had cheap and if you drill holes in them they whistle. There are no restrictions on them, i buy my cannon fuse from Al Simmons in Hamilton along with my BP. Remember that BP can only be possessed up to 24 pounds for storage at any one location, so if you need 100lbs for an afternoon of fun, get a magazine license for powder storage, buy it on the way or store it at a friends house 24lbs at a time..there are a few awesome companies out there that make repro's. enjoy
 
"...falling breech style howitzer..." No ammo available for that big single shot rifle.
"...where can I obtain cannons like that..." Stateside with lots of money. Prices start around 8 grand US.
 
They aren't hand held or intended to be hand held so they wouldn't be firearms. Do a google search. There are some made in Manitoba.
 
Fixed it for ya

sunray said:
"...falling breech style howitzer..." No ammo available for that big single shot rifle.
"...where can I obtain cannons like that..." Stateside with lots of money. Prices start around 4 grand US.
Click to expand...

if you buy used
 
oddly enough

NavyShooter said:
Does anyone know what the rules would be for a falling breech style howitzer/field gun? (Breech-loader)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_mod%C3%A8le_1897

A breechloading gun from 1897....?

NS
Click to expand...

I dealt with this issue of breech loading smooth bores when we imported a pair of T-72's. The actual gun itself is non restricted but considered a firearm as it is not fired by fuse or touch hole. However while the CFC may issue an FRT number for it, it crossed into the territory of the CGD and I believe you are familiar with that situation
 
So,

What is to prevent someone from building a large sized system?

IE, if I was to want to have a 2" bore breech-loading gun, and was willing to buy the brass and turn down the shells on my own lathe, and built the whole system from scratch based on, say, a 25 pdr field gun scaled down by 50%, what laws would that fall under?

No-one I've asked has so far been able to answer a question like that.

If it was a muzzle-loader, it'd be no problem.

No-one's been able to answer the question about a breech-loader for me.

NS
 
SD,

The CGD area is somewhere I want to avoid methinks.

If it was a one-of, scratch-built system that was not compatible with military guns/ammo/etc, might it be outside the CGD?

NS
 
Now for the other side you were asking for......I am an Officer, I do not agree with alot of the gun laws in Canada, but I must uphold them.......Anyways, the cannon described is a firearm under the definition in the Criminal Code, though I do not believe it to be a registerable firearm (ie. similar to an antique or flintlock rifle, etc)

Now if I found you setting off this cannon on your own land(farm well outside city limits, etc), not bothering anyone or putting anyones property or life in danger, I would have no problems.......(maybe even a heads up to the local RCMP would be a good idea, heck invite them over to take a shot or two)

BUT as with airrifles, airsoft guns, etc if it is used in the commission of an offence (robbery, uttering threats, etc) than it is considered a firearm still and the applicable charges will be laid (including firearms offences, loss of all of you firearms, loss of PAL, etc, etc).......

now the grey area of the law. if you have this cannon in a city park, but not fireing it( no powder, no projectiles), or in transport on the highway, etc. That will be individual officer discretion. To make it easier on yourself, render it inoperable with a locking device, leave unloaded, cover so as not visible to public, etc. An Officer who does not know the specifics in this law and any officer for that matter that feels this may be a safety concern to the public can and probably will seize the cannon until you can explain what in the world you were doing with it and what purpose it has, etc.

Now from my experience in this area of the law, if you have a good reason for what you are doing, go above and beyond the safety precautions, are respectful to the Officer talking to you, etc, etc things will go much smoother for you.......if you are a prik to the Officer, have the thing loaded on a street and ready to fire, etc, etc, expect anything firearms realated that belongs to you to go bye bye....Hope this helps,,,any questions feel free to ask or to PM...Matt
 
Sisiphunter,

I'm looking to make sure I'm NOT in a gray area.

I'd like to have chapter and verse on the off-chance that after building a cannon, registering it (if required) and am off to fire it, someone does happen to wander by (say the RCMP or HPD who are regular users at the local range I use) so I can show them that I'm legal.

Then let them have a shot or two with it and observe the BIG GRINS.

I've got a set of mini plans that someone shared with me once upon a time for a TINY 9mm cannon, (which would actually have to be registered as a handgun if I built it due it's size) but I'm thinking that scaling it up to fit a 2" diameter bore would be pretty neat.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to contact the CFC and get their input on the idea before doing anything, eh?

NS
 
Yeah the CFC would be a good idea, but from my personnal experience, it really depends on which officer you talk to out there...Not all of them are very knowledgable on obscure firearms questions like this. For the best opinion talk to the Chief Firearms Officer for your province or area.

Since it will not be an original antique (ie, made before 1898 and other provisions), it may not fall into the antique provisions. It will have to fire a non contained ammuntion (rimfire, centerfire, pinfire, etc.) so you will have to load similar to an old flintlock or matchlock, etc. Basically the primer (or wick, etc) must be seperate from the powder which is sperate from the projectile or shot.

I would say, just to be safe, why not make it into a non-restricted firearm (barrel over 470mm, overall length over 660mm) and register it as non-restricted, stamp your own s/n on it, etc, then you will have a reg certificate and be good to go. I have registered a modern Flintlock, just for the same reasons.

I have to go out right away, but I will dig through my Criminal Code and the FRT's to see what I can find for ya'll and will try to report back later today...
 
The CGD will refer to the ITAR

NavyShooter said:
SD,

The CGD area is somewhere I want to avoid methinks.

If it was a one-of, scratch-built system that was not compatible with military guns/ammo/etc, might it be outside the CGD?

NS
Click to expand...

and DFAIT regulations on the issue sadly the section that regulates it was so broad it can encompass the idea you have suggested. i will find the link on it and post it
 
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