Cannot remove Tavor barrel, help.

I hear where you are coming from, but I must disagree.

It is a military rifle, yes, it was designed to survive the most harsh of environments, correct, however, it is still a precision piece of machinery that requires regular inspection and preventive maintenance.

The fact that it's as robust as it is means you can "Get away" without cleaning it, not that it does not require it.
It does mean that you can "Get away" with not cleaning it, and perhaps still be able to bet your life on it, and I'm sure the rifle does still function fine now, doesn't it ? Still goes bang? it has fulfilled is design.

Yes, it can go 4000 rounds without a cleaning, but guess what, after the soldier is done his training for the day, you can bet as sure as a bear craps in the woods the CO is going to have him stripping it down for inspection and maintenance after. Hell, some soldiers would probably tell you them spend more time cleaning them then shooting them.

Furthermore, there is a significant difference between operation state, and storage state.
You can fire 100 rounds of corrosive thru' an SKS, and it will not show any rust. You can proceed to fire 1000 rounds thru' that rifle, and it will not show any rust. But then 1 round or 1000 rounds, you let it sit for a week, and you come back to find the rust.

Sometime maintenance is not about keeping it running, as much as it is to prevent it from going foul while in storage.

That being said, I'm going to throw this scenario out there.

It was just winter, you take your rifle out to the cold of winter and run it. After which you put it back in the case, and bring it home.
If your rifle was in freezing temperature, and you promptly take it out of the case, what happens ?
Instant moisture. Condensation covering the entire rifle.

So what do you do? Me, I will bring my rifles in the house and keep them in the case for several hours to slowly acclimatize.
Finally, I will remove them from the case, for inspection and maintenance before storing. This process will cut down on the amount of condensation that forms on the rifle but will not circumvent it completely. The rifle will most always still require inspection and a basic wipedown, if only to make sure moisture is removed from metal parts.

Enter the Tavor. Inside that poly exterior is the same steel all other rifles use. However, it is shrouded. The metal parts are wrapped up in an insulator that may require it even more time to acclimatize, and make ventilation and moisture removal even more difficult. In some cases, the poly and exposed parts may me room temp' to the touch, but internally it is still cold and attracting moisture.

Without knowing more, this is my first guess on what has happened. One day this winter, you had it out shooting, your brought it home, and the cold steel where the barrel meets the receiver buried deep in the heart of the rifle was still a bit cold and attracted some moisture, and finally, however long later, something has seized up with corrosion. It doesn't take much between tight fitting parts.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to neglect your rifle. I could interpret what you've said so far as, you just don't clean them, but you still take them down for inspection and maintenance.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, If so I apologize, that kind of thing does sometimes happen in a text only medium, but your argument sounds like you are suggesting that a military rifle of it's grade does not require maintenance, but I'm sure that's further from the truth, and that the IDF themselves would probably back up my sentiments.

Justins1877 said:
I disagree, Conte. This is a military rifle, made for sub zero - to blazing heat, sand, ect. If a little semi auto fire makes it so you can't detail strip - then something is wrong in the design.

For there to a as big a problem as this, you should notice a difference in performance. Safety not working correctly, FTE/FTF, trigger problems, or in the Tavor's case, a smooth trigger.
Cleaning, or lack there of is NOT the problem. Per year I fire around 2,000 to 4,000 rounds a year, no problems - and it's never been a problem. On the high average, that's like a week training for a solider?
Many times people do more damage to their guns by over cleaning, then just using the firearm.

Anyway, this problem is past internet help. Thanks everyone.
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conte has a good point. i have a usgi manual that states "Do not bring any cold materials indoors unless it is absolutely necessary. of course we cant do that lol so it says to use "anticondensation" containers. aka a sealed container that can slowly adjust to the temperature with only cold DRY air to surround it until it adjusts to the warmer temperature.
 
TV-PressPass said:
IWI says a lot of things . . . like that there's only one right way to hold the gun.
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Yea but why remove the barrel for cleaning ?? Its designed to be cleaned by only removing the BCG and trigger group. The last thing i would risk doing is wear out the barrel lock or receiver by taking the barrel off and on every time i clean it, its not made to be removed regularly like that ..
 
boss351cleveland said:
Yea but why remove the barrel for cleaning ?? Its designed to be cleaned by only removing the BCG and trigger group. The last thing i would risk doing is wear out the barrel lock or receiver by taking the barrel off and on every time i clean it, its not made to be removed regularly like that ..
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Well, if he only does it once a year, then it's perfectly acceptable. I could see that being something you only do once a year, even if you did regularly clean your rifle.

I'm starting to wonder if by cleaning, he means a complete strip, trigger group, every pin, every spring kind of thing, and he otherwise does do the usually bolt, piston, and barrel after every outing. If so, I've got him completely wrong.

Cause yeah, after the range, barrel, bolt, whatever gas system (none for the AR, Love it), and wipe down and re lube accessible parts of the trigger group.
I certainly don't unbolt my barrel or pull apart my trigger group every session, that kind of full monty only happens every few thousand rounds to taste.
 
Conte said:
Well, if he only does it once a year, then it's perfectly acceptable. I could see that being something you only do once a year, even if you did regularly clean your rifle.

I'm starting to wonder if by cleaning, he means a complete strip, trigger group, every pin, every spring kind of thing, and he otherwise does do the usually bolt, piston, and barrel after every outing. If so, I've got him completely wrong.

Cause yeah, after the range, barrel, bolt, whatever gas system (none for the AR, Love it), and wipe down and re lube accessible parts of the trigger group.
I certainly don't unbolt my barrel or pull apart my trigger group every session, that kind of full monty only happens every few thousand rounds to taste.
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Conte, you have made some good points, and I agree with several of them. Although I brought up the military reference, I don't rely on this rifle saving my life... So I guess I put a little less care into it's general maintenance. Yes.. I should have been more clear - it only gets a COMPLETE detail strip once a year. Every 2nd or 3rd trip/match the BC, barrel, and as much as I can reach in the interior of the rifle gets a wipe/lube where needed.
IDK why I only clean it once a year, it's not that I'm lazy, because I actually enjoy doing it. I just feel I don't need to - and my general rule of thumb is, unless it's giving me problems, why F with it?


boss351cleveland said:
IWI says do not remove the barrel for cleaning or maintenance , They say it should be removed by a armorer only ..
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Yeah, that's what the manual says, but it's impossible to clean the gas block, and chamber WITHOUT removing the barrel. That's why I remove it.

223762 said:
i clean my tavor after ever use and it is harder to remove sometimes then others. the first time is supost to be the hardest. but one time after that i thought i might break the allan key be for i got the the f-in thing loose. i was flexing the allan key more then i have ever flexed any other tool without it breaking. i had to use a 6" long wrench as a pry-bar. it worked in the end. hope you break that thing free. its an awsome toy....p.s. please clean it more then once a year just for me lol.ovrec
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IMHO, the Tavor doesn't need to be cleaned after each use, but to each their own. I will consider your request after what it took to remove the barrel. :)


Alright, so I got the barrel off ( good ol Leathermen MUTT. ) The carbon build up around the rifle was ridiculous. I should have really taken a picture of the gas block, it was pretty epic. :) Perhaps I will go with semi annual detail maintenance, and adjust accordingly. :)

Thanks everyone for the support and time.
 
Justins1877 said:
Alright, so I got the barrel off ( good ol Leathermen MUTT. ) The carbon build up around the rifle was ridiculous. I should have really taken a picture of the gas block, it was pretty epic. :) Perhaps I will go with semi annual detail maintenance, and adjust accordingly. :)

Thanks everyone for the support and time.
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wipeout foam bore cleaner does a good job of cleaning carbon fouling out of piston systems and leaves enough lube on afterwards to protect things. you don't want to lube your gas system as any wet lube turns to carbon fast. You can shoot that foam cleaner into the gas system and it will penetrate the gas ports, blow it out with compressed air. This is something you can do after a few trips to the range and it will keep your from having to frequently detail strip. Wipeout foam bore cleaner is what I have found to be the absolute best at cleaning fouled pistons. YMMV
 
dizzy said:
wipeout foam bore cleaner does a good job of cleaning carbon fouling out of piston systems and leaves enough lube on afterwards to protect things. you don't want to lube your gas system as any wet lube turns to carbon fast. You can shoot that foam cleaner into the gas system and it will penetrate the gas ports, blow it out with compressed air. This is something you can do after a few trips to the range and it will keep your from having to frequently detail strip. Wipeout foam bore cleaner is what I have found to be the absolute best at cleaning fouled pistons. YMMV
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just a heads up. i had a bad experience with wipeout. without using a cleaning solvent after the wipout, the wipe out will plug you gas system and make you real angry the next time you try to shoot it. i never use it anymore and havent had a problem since.
 
223762 said:
just a heads up. i had a bad experience with wipeout. without using a cleaning solvent after the wipout, the wipe out will plug you gas system and make you real angry the next time you try to shoot it. i never use it anymore and havent had a problem since.
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Same here. Over time it seems to harden and turn to a varnish like substance.
 
223762 said:
just a heads up. i had a bad experience with wipeout. without using a cleaning solvent after the wipout, the wipe out will plug you gas system and make you real angry the next time you try to shoot it. i never use it anymore and havent had a problem since.
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which is why compressed air was mentioned, it needs to be blown out, if you leave it or any other cleaner in situ along with the crud it removed from the surface you will have a lot of trouble. What this tells me is that wipeout did a great job of removing the fouling from the surface, once its done its job, yes it and the crud need to be removed.
 
Yep. It's attached to my LBE for a reason. Didn't think I'd have to use it in my home though. Defenetly recommend that tool for any gun nut.
:)
Nope. I'm using a phantom flash hider, and soon to be KAC TT, maybe. Why? Do you think it could have contributed to the problem?
 
using cheapo ammo will crud things up quickly as will lubing your piston, lube turns to carbon real fast inside the piston tube. Cleaning the piston tube in these is a chore without a full tear down.
 
I am my own armorer for 95% of my guns when they need a major service or cleaning.

When something is beyond my skill level or available tools, I will bring it to the local gunsmith.
 
Nope, no can, unfortunately. Although a KAC suppressor was once mounted.
I never run cheapo ammo through any of my firearms, Federal or Hornady - depending on the task. There is no way in hell you can clean the piston tube, without removing the barrel, it's impossible.
If I'm going to remove the top and bottom hand guard, I might as well take the barrel off and do it properly.

TV-PressPass said:
huzzah!!
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That's pretty much what I said when I cracked it, but it look more like this "huzzah mother %$@&*!" The rifle is all but factory clean now, ready for more.
 
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