can't shoot a XxS

jsdboy

jsdboy

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saanichton, b.c.
hi - i have a fine old 20 ga. side by side double barrell made by antonio zoli.
i have shot round after round of trap with it and can not hit a thing (well, 4/25...)

yet when i grab my beretta semi, or my browning BPS i drop 22/25 pretty consistently. so obviously i need work period. however the side by side thing is really baffling me. when i shoulder the gun with my eyes closed, and open them i am looking straight downd the top of the vented rib. all good, but not in practice.

any tips????????????

a club member urged me not to sell as he felt if i had the chokes bored to improved/mod it would make a teriffic skeet gun as it is so nimble in the hands. i'm just perplexed............

thank you.
 
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Take some paper and put a visible dot in the centre. Put the paper out at 16 yards. With the gun down, stare at the dot. Without averting your eyes, bring up the gun and shoot for the dot. The hard part is not looking at the gun. This procedure will tell you where the gun is shooting. It helps a lot to have a well practiced gun mount before you attempt this.

Sharptail
 
What Sharptail said ...

First, take the time to pattern the gun as if it were a rifle ... on a rest, with as much "aim" as you can put into it... looking flat down the rib. This will tell you if the gun shoots "straight" in the first place ( a static test) ... i.e., are the barrels regulated to place the shot charge from both barrels at the same point, (with reference to the point of aim), or, slightly high, half a pattern high, etc. etc. For field guns ( and most skeet/sporting guns) most want the pattern 50/50 above/below centre ... although I find 60/40 above below works better for me. Many want their trap guns to pattern something like
75/25 to even a full pattern high.

Second .. on to Sharptails advice: Pattern in a fashion as if you were trying to hit that dot with as quick and smooth a gun mount as possible ...BUT you do not want to aim ! ( Dynamic rather than static - in this exercise you are patterning for Point of Impact and NOT for pattern percentage or density).

While the vast majority of shotguns "shoot straight" - most shooters really do not know much about how their shotgun REALLY fits. I hear lots of " It comes up great" & " gee, this really fits nice" which I guess means "the gun is comfortable" ... but until you pattern it, you really cant tell if it's "shooting where you're looking" ... and yes a good, consistant gun mounting technique is esential to good shotgunning.

Good luck with your patterning !

Should Add: You need to maintain a hard visual focus on your
target with a SxS if you're not used to shooting one. Most find
the twin tubes a little disconcerting at first ... wind up staring more at the barrels rather than looking at the target !
 
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Definitely try what sharptail said, I have a SxS greener that puts both barrels on top of each other on the patterning board, but they are about a 18 inches low and 10 inches right of where I want them, yet when I handle it I find that I look right down the rib, with a cheek piece mounted on it I see alot of the rib but I can shoot very well with it.
 
:rolleyes: SxS are very difficult to shoot if ones tries to use the rib, specialy on rising teal shots! My best results have been the old: look and focus on the target! The gun must be patterned to make sure that where your index (yes, use your index as instinct is best:rockOn:) is pointing, the pattern centers!. I have finished top 10 at several Vintage Cups World SxS Championships and won the Vt State SxS a few weeks ago with my Cleaborough & Johnson English Side by each:rockOn:.

Best regards,
Henry;)
 
ok boys, i have the big sheets of cardboard, paper. now just some time and i am ready to go

sharptail, i think i am going to put the paper out at 35 yds or so, as my hunch is that at 16 yds the choke is so tight i will just get a big hole, with no pellets to count.

hnachaj, i am astounded by you story. the SxS put the shots ON TOP of each other? lord! i could be in for a real surprise! oh - and i always sit down the rib when i shoot it. maybe this venerable old peice will force me into some better habits.

thank you all, will report back ASAP
 
Jsdboy, there is a reason you want to do this at 16 yards. There is a formula for modifying the stock to achieve proper gun fit and it is based on measurements taken at 16 yards. Patterning for pellet distribution is different than patterning for point of impact. By all means, do both, but do the POI patterning at 16 yards and make life easy on yourself.

Sharptail
 
:eek:Don't forget central!:eek: There were a number of these at Orvis this weekend!:runaway:

Some of the top English instructors were there from West London (Ronnie), Chris Batha, Keith Lipton and even the King himself, Mr George Digweed (mingling and only coaching and not shooting for score, he did break the long target form the hip!).

A hammergun won D class at the Orvis Cup. He did miserably at the Orvis Cup shootout, forgetting to pull the hammers on a pair. He also missed a number of way-way-way out there targets (mucho time delay between break and shot):eek:

Best regards,
Henry:cool:
 
beretta boy said:
Scar270 ... are you a left-handed shooter - or a right-handed shooter with left eye dominance ?
Click to expand...

Neither, I'm right handed and right eye dominant. I really don't understand the problem with the greener, except stock design, it has been restocked. I shoot my other sxs's with no problem, as well as pumps and O/U's. It's just something with the stock on the greener.
 
With drop at comb & heel, pitch, cast (if any) and L.O.P. all identical to your other guns, and you have confirmed P.O.I. by patterning ... the SxS should shoot the same as your other guns.
 
I think your all wrong here. Of course fit is everything. I can't hit anything with my doubles on the trap and skeet ranges. But when I take it into the field. Pheasants beware. I think it has something to do with the 2 barrel sighting plane. In the field it's pure instinct.
 
Win/64 said:
I think your all wrong here. Of course fit is everything. I can't hit anything with my doubles on the trap and skeet ranges. But when I take it into the field. Pheasants beware. I think it has something to do with the 2 barrel sighting plane. In the field it's pure instinct.
Click to expand...

BB is right! I also think that if the fit is right and your mechanics are right, there should be no need to pay much attention to what type of sighting plane you have and those trap and skeet targets should be breaking all over the place. If your fit is right your should be able to ignor whatever sight plane you have, call for your target and let your pure instinct take over. Dead bird!!
 
There is a very common tendency for SxS "neophytes" to get caught out staring at their TWO BIG WIDE BARRELS instead of acquiring a hard focus on the target ... and it doesn't matter a bit whether its clay or feathers.

Pattern to determine firstly: that the barrels "shoot straight to a common point of impact" ... a static "bench-resting" of the gun, if you will,
and secondly: that the stock fits you well enough that you can rapidly and repeatedly mount the gun to hit the spot that you're pointing it at ... a dynamic "gun mount/patterning exercise to confirm fit" ... ensures the gun will shoot where you're looking"

In more than 40 years of clay target and wing-shooting, I can just about guarantee that improper gun fit &/or mounting technique is the basis for for most misses, whether on clays or in the field, no matter if it's with a "single sighting plane" shotgun ... pump, semi, single or O/U ... or a SxS double.
 
:eek:40 years of shooting and still a Beretta Boy?:confused: But you are right here. Anybody looking at barrels or sights instead of a target, is in big trouble!:p I had a good laugh with King George Digweed last week, regrding some of the not so novice guns showing up with fiber optics etc on their shotguns. Of course, none of them could hit anything out there.

Not one top sporting or FITASC shooter ever needs a bead! They shoot where the finger on the forearm points!:cool:

Best regards,
Henry;) In sunny:confused:Vancouver
 
hnachaj said:
Not one top sporting or FITASC shooter ever needs a bead! They shoot where the finger on the forearm points!:cool:
Click to expand...

I think that the best use the finger as a aid, but in fact they shoot where their whole body points and where they are focused!
 
The top shooters in every discipline make every conceivable effort to ensure their guns fit properly ... and in fact, shoot where they look, although many "ATA-type" Trap shooters may often want their guns to pattern from 50% to a full pattern high. There are no short-cuts to good mounting technique & proper gun fit ...and a hard focus on the targets is absolutely essential to consitantly breaking them. Sporting and FITASC are particularly challenging, as target paths are not as set or predictable as conventional
(American style) Trap & Skeet targets. The tougher the game, the better the shooters gun fit and technique needs to be. Those that compete at the top levels have incredibly well-developed powers of concentration.
 
Easy there!

hnachaj said:
:eek:40 years of shooting and still a Beretta Boy?:confused:

hey mr. hnachaj! easy there on berettta boy -berettas rock. i have an old A300 that i bet could put more rounds through it than a browning superposed even. and i can hit trap with it, unlike a SxS.

thanks for the comments on instinct shooting though.................
Click to expand...
 
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