nope- you run into pressure problems and risk blowing the case at the head, just above the extractor goove- that part of the case is unsupported unless you have one with a fully supprted case and a rampled barrel- the ONLY way to "enhance " the 45 acp is to use RIFLE brass, which is thicker in the web and possibly longer case- but be prepared that when you start to "step on" the 45 acp you NEED to change the springs and get relaibility issues unless you get a kit or get one made- in other words , it's pretty well at the top of it's game as it comes from the factory; now if you want , a REAL magnum 45 auto, take a look at the 460 rowland with the 18" barrel stats
Carbine caliber... .40 or .45?
- Thread starter MiniMe
- Start date
T-star:
My JR carbine in 45ACP gets 1050 fps from factory 230grain ball (winchester small primer, BEB bullets). Thats 142fps more than any
Load listed on the Hodgdon website for 230 jacketed bullets.
That really seems
To be allot better than 5" barrels get.
I agree though that the 45acp is maxed out fairly quickly! Untill JR comes
Up with the replacement bolt, we will continue to see very aggressive cartridge feeding!
In 200 rounds I had 5 cases that were completely punctured upon a missfeed. The bottom part of the boltface ( case feeding part)simply carried forward toward battery until it crushed the case. The square bolt face crashed into the case just below where the bottom of the bullet is in the case. Perfect puncture right into the powder chamber!
Personally, I feel the longer barrel is causing a prolonged pressure curve (relatively speaking), and causing the bolt to be hammered much harder than with a shorter barrel.
I dont have a piezielectric strain gauge, but it would be interesting to see whats going on.
I agree that the 45 just isnt designed for longer barrels, but the thompson sub machine gun worked just fine. But the barrels are usually 10-14"(i believe from my limited knowledge of those firearms).
My JR barrel is 18.5". Much longer indeed!
I looked closely at the bolt when in full battery. There seems to be VERY little case that is unsupported in this rifle. My cases have absolutely no bulges near the case head where most auto pistols usually get them.
Hope some of this information can help someone.
My JR carbine in 45ACP gets 1050 fps from factory 230grain ball (winchester small primer, BEB bullets). Thats 142fps more than any
Load listed on the Hodgdon website for 230 jacketed bullets.
That really seems
To be allot better than 5" barrels get.
I agree though that the 45acp is maxed out fairly quickly! Untill JR comes
Up with the replacement bolt, we will continue to see very aggressive cartridge feeding!
In 200 rounds I had 5 cases that were completely punctured upon a missfeed. The bottom part of the boltface ( case feeding part)simply carried forward toward battery until it crushed the case. The square bolt face crashed into the case just below where the bottom of the bullet is in the case. Perfect puncture right into the powder chamber!
Personally, I feel the longer barrel is causing a prolonged pressure curve (relatively speaking), and causing the bolt to be hammered much harder than with a shorter barrel.
I dont have a piezielectric strain gauge, but it would be interesting to see whats going on.
I agree that the 45 just isnt designed for longer barrels, but the thompson sub machine gun worked just fine. But the barrels are usually 10-14"(i believe from my limited knowledge of those firearms).
My JR barrel is 18.5". Much longer indeed!
I looked closely at the bolt when in full battery. There seems to be VERY little case that is unsupported in this rifle. My cases have absolutely no bulges near the case head where most auto pistols usually get them.
Hope some of this information can help someone.
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T-star:
If a guy was to make cases out of .308 or 3006 brass, I would think it would take some inside reaming to make room for the bullet. But this case may work better at this point.
I wouldnt think its worth the work/bother to make them. Interesting Idea though.
If a guy was to make cases out of .308 or 3006 brass, I would think it would take some inside reaming to make room for the bullet. But this case may work better at this point.
I wouldnt think its worth the work/bother to make them. Interesting Idea though.
.40 gives you good ballistics and some stopping power at range. Cost when reloaded is marginal over 9mm. I have a storm in .40cal and regularly shoot it to 200m. It loves 155grXTP's 40 brasss is common as dirt here, .45acp brass hard to find for free.
T-Star:
I am trying to understand what you are getting at.
Are you saying that if the .308 or 3006 case is cut to 45ACP length, it wont work any better then the standard case? Have you tried it?
I know the detonics is a far heavier built pistol to handle higher pressures.
The only limiting factor between the Detonic cartridge and the 45ACP is the gun/design that shoots it. (Feeding ramp doesnt take support away from the case).
I would love to be able to shoot the detonics in the JR! But The JR wasnt intended for that kind of use.
I am getting 1050fps with a 230grain facory load. That is 115fps faster than the 14" Thompson barrel velocities you quoted. And 195fps more than the max load with 231 you listed. At this level/velocity range, that is a dramatic increase for 4.25" more barrel(Thompson). I chronygraphed all of my shots during my trouble shooting of this carbine. FAR more than you quoted. It surprised me as well, but I have tested this 5-6 times with this ammo. This velocity/pressure has to be contributing to the bolt speed and closure issues.
That factory load sure smacks Beavers though! LOL!
If my 230grain loads were closer to the 850-875fps range,(as it should be in pistols), I may see improved feeding characteristics.
I will be reloading for this carbine probably tommorrow. I have the 230gr. JHP Sierras to test. Hopefully it feeds them well.
I really look forward to the gopher fields! LOL!
It will be a blast!
I am going to video tape shooting this carbine out to 100 yards or so. If the light is good, we should be able to see the slug momentarily pass through, or by the targets. Like soft balls LOL!
As far as being able to "step a little harder" on the chamber made by JR, I would like to, but I want to wait till they get the feeding issue resolved. I will feel safer that way. And I want to preserve my brass more.
I made some minor modifications on my feeding ramp that helped noticably. (the cases are far less scarred).
I also gently rounded off the sharp machined edges on/around the bolt race ways in hopes that the carbine wouldnt be so hard on the brass. This helped, but never cured it....DARN IT!
Shoot straight guys and keep it fun!
I am trying to understand what you are getting at.
Are you saying that if the .308 or 3006 case is cut to 45ACP length, it wont work any better then the standard case? Have you tried it?
I know the detonics is a far heavier built pistol to handle higher pressures.
The only limiting factor between the Detonic cartridge and the 45ACP is the gun/design that shoots it. (Feeding ramp doesnt take support away from the case).
I would love to be able to shoot the detonics in the JR! But The JR wasnt intended for that kind of use.
I am getting 1050fps with a 230grain facory load. That is 115fps faster than the 14" Thompson barrel velocities you quoted. And 195fps more than the max load with 231 you listed. At this level/velocity range, that is a dramatic increase for 4.25" more barrel(Thompson). I chronygraphed all of my shots during my trouble shooting of this carbine. FAR more than you quoted. It surprised me as well, but I have tested this 5-6 times with this ammo. This velocity/pressure has to be contributing to the bolt speed and closure issues.
That factory load sure smacks Beavers though! LOL!
If my 230grain loads were closer to the 850-875fps range,(as it should be in pistols), I may see improved feeding characteristics.
I will be reloading for this carbine probably tommorrow. I have the 230gr. JHP Sierras to test. Hopefully it feeds them well.
I really look forward to the gopher fields! LOL!
It will be a blast!
I am going to video tape shooting this carbine out to 100 yards or so. If the light is good, we should be able to see the slug momentarily pass through, or by the targets. Like soft balls LOL!
As far as being able to "step a little harder" on the chamber made by JR, I would like to, but I want to wait till they get the feeding issue resolved. I will feel safer that way. And I want to preserve my brass more.
I made some minor modifications on my feeding ramp that helped noticably. (the cases are far less scarred).
I also gently rounded off the sharp machined edges on/around the bolt race ways in hopes that the carbine wouldnt be so hard on the brass. This helped, but never cured it....DARN IT!
Shoot straight guys and keep it fun!
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Good call on the .40,,,especially if your carrying it around in the bush. Pick up 2 boxes of .40 and 2 boxes of .45. See how much heavier .45 is? Id rather carry around a lighter bullet. Especially if all im shooting is cans bottles and fruit.
I wonder how hard it is to wildcat a carbine.
I'm trying out .40 super (.40 projectile, .45 case) and if I like it, I might like to have a carbine in it. I'm hoping to propel a 135gn .40 at about 1600-1800ft/sec. out of a 5.750" barrel in the 1911.
I'm trying out .40 super (.40 projectile, .45 case) and if I like it, I might like to have a carbine in it. I'm hoping to propel a 135gn .40 at about 1600-1800ft/sec. out of a 5.750" barrel in the 1911.
i'm only passing on information that was quoted in guns and ammo or gun world years ago- i'm not going to destroy ( which is what happens when you use loads above 17-19-23k depending on whom you quote) my own pistols in the name of getting a few extra fps out - besides, i only have 2- a colt mk4.series 70, and a vintage remington 45 acp- it's only the thickness of the brass in the web area ( ie rifle brass) that allows it to perform at greater pressures- the detonics et al are NOT built any heavier than any of the modern 1911s- that's why rowland can use any MODERN frame and internals for their 460 rowland conversion
think about it for a minute- you're using a THICKER case, but you're STILL using a 5 inch barrel - so while you MAY gain a few fps it's going to be marginal- the way i see it, you have to go through about 3 steps
1) completely support the chamber and feedramp
2) use rifle brass b/c of the thicker web
3) use a longer barrel take advantage the higher pressure
as long as you're going to go to all that trouble, you might as well chamber for the 460 rowland,or the 45 win mag, seeing as the 451 detonics is kind of obsolete and the company is long out of business
