Carbine Course Questions
- Thread starter jg007
- Start date
What is this course about? If it's a course on basic firearm manipulation and handling, it doesn't matter what you bring in. If this is a course about hitting things faster and more accurately with emphasis on marksmanship and shooting principles, a 8" pdw is a horrible training tool IMHO.
Agreed, an 8 inch is for jumping in and out of vehicles not for driving the rifle through a course setting.
For an indoor class with an 8 inch I would definitely go with a linear brake or your concussion shield if you have one, a linear is way cheaper.
Depending what your course focuses on will determine what "load out" you need. The course I went to this summer was run by guys with all different set-ups, pistol holster preference seemed to be drop-leg but I ran mine on my hip with mag pouches on my belt. I ran a 12 inch AR for most of the course with a magpul single point sling and switched to my 16 inch after lunch on day two just for fun. A quality red dot with a fresh battery is all you need for optics.
Take lot's of ammo and have fun
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
GT didn't say a SBR was bad, just that if you were training with marksmanship in mind, that a longer rifle (14-20") would be better. Most will run a 14.5, 16 or 18" gun in these courses. SBRs are great for CQB training but I would personally go with a 10.5"-12" and not run a muzzle brake or comp.
I use a battle belt with a Blackhawk Serpa using the Jacket slot duty belt loop adapter.
Spare me the Serpa bull#### please.
It allows the holster to ride low enough for an easy draw.
I am not a fan of drop leg holsters because they always seem to ride up on me.
HSGI X2RP Taco's are probably the best mag pouches on the market and well worth the price.
Spare me the Serpa bull#### please.
It allows the holster to ride low enough for an easy draw.
I am not a fan of drop leg holsters because they always seem to ride up on me.
HSGI X2RP Taco's are probably the best mag pouches on the market and well worth the price.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Hahaha!
I'm guessing, and it's only a guess, that real operators don't use PDWs. They carry a rifle and back it up with their sidearm?
So a PDW is considered neither here nor there? That's why I mentioned a 10.5-12" being the minimum. But I could be wrong!
I have a couple carbine courses under my belt. Run whatever rifle you want, AR would be a good choice as that is what most will be running. Run whatever length you want, just know that if you are running a brake, the people beside you will not be your friend anymore 5 minutes into the course. Run a blast shield. Short or long doesn't matter. On the courses Ive been to people ran all different length, as long as its reliable and sighted in not much else really matters, but again, brakes do piss people all, and if you do any positional shooting such as supine, the blast won't feel too great on the legs. I ran a 14.5, we had all different lengths from 10-20in barrels, use what you have, at the ranges you will be shooting, a longer barrel will give you no better accuracy not to mention is heavier and longer so the ease of moving it will decrease the longer it is. This is not benched shooting so be aware of that.
As far as kit, run what you are comfortable with, Ive run plate carrier or belt rig. Personally, i would go with a belt rig as it is more comfortable. you should only need 3 mags, so 1 in the gun, 2 on the rig. no less, more if you really want but most courses of fire are for 3 mags. For holsters, whichever you prefer, drop leg or belt, your preference, I run both depending on if I am running a carrier or not. Just make sure ahead of time that it fits the requirements, many courses do not allow Serpa's unless it is job issued, ie: you are a police officer.
Is this the CSC Carbine 1 course? if it is, talk to Carl the instruction before hand and he will get you sorted.
As far as kit, run what you are comfortable with, Ive run plate carrier or belt rig. Personally, i would go with a belt rig as it is more comfortable. you should only need 3 mags, so 1 in the gun, 2 on the rig. no less, more if you really want but most courses of fire are for 3 mags. For holsters, whichever you prefer, drop leg or belt, your preference, I run both depending on if I am running a carrier or not. Just make sure ahead of time that it fits the requirements, many courses do not allow Serpa's unless it is job issued, ie: you are a police officer.
Is this the CSC Carbine 1 course? if it is, talk to Carl the instruction before hand and he will get you sorted.
i'm glad this thread popped up, this spring/summer I was wanting to do pistol 1 and carbine 1 classes (im relatively new still). I was thinking the exact question as the OP. I just purchased a glock 17, and a vz58 in .223 with magwell adapter, and decided to pick up the 5.11 tactek plate carrier. A rigid belt (HSGI cobra rigger?) with belt mounted HSGI R/P taco(s) was also a thought. Then again, so was the hsgi padded drop leg panel that could fit 2 or 3 rifle/pistol tacos. Any opinions on any of those for classes?
I would see if you can beg/borrow/steal
a drop leg holster and use it before the course. I purchased a HSGI drop leg and ran it for 1/2 a day. It was constantly moving around on me (including riding up my thigh) and was never where I wanted it to be when time for a mag change. I also didn't like the extra reach required to pull a mag. Ended up ditching the drop leg and using a battle belt for the rest of the course with a couple of Taco's on the belt. I used to compete and this setup was identical to my IPSC load out - so I found it more natural for me.Never had to wear a plate carrier so drop-leg was something I thought I'd try. Haven't used it since the course 3 years ago.
Your mileage may vary.
L
- Location
- Fort St John B.C.
i have 3+ carbine courses under my belt, rising sun tactical, phase line green and tactical response..... my words of wisdom.
- run what you want when you want.... everyone is wearing ear pro and yes the firing line is supposed to be loud
- invest in qualty electronic ear muffs, and no the peltor 6s is not considered quality in my mind, swattacs, msa or proears or something similar.... think of double plugging using surefire plugs with/without the valve open.
- don't be that noob that wears his drop leg around his knee..... if your going to use a drop leg learn the proper placement for it, frankly a dropped offset owb holster is usually a much better choice, and frankly a properly positioned dropleg is in a very similar place as the doh.
- unless its a complete soup sammich, finish the course with the gear you started..... dont be that guy swapping things around every hour and running several different guns.... it just makes you look like a noob, your gear should be squared away before course, any changes can be done afterward when your much more educated.
an indoor carbine course is going to be about 100yd and under shots probably using reduced size targets to simulate longer range, weapons manipulation/clearence drills and magazine changes, transition drills and shooting from both shoulders is whais going to be taught as well as shooting positions..... one of the better things to practice before going is how to safely setup and clear your fifle of type 1-4 malfunctions
my .02$
- run what you want when you want.... everyone is wearing ear pro and yes the firing line is supposed to be loud
- invest in qualty electronic ear muffs, and no the peltor 6s is not considered quality in my mind, swattacs, msa or proears or something similar.... think of double plugging using surefire plugs with/without the valve open.
- don't be that noob that wears his drop leg around his knee..... if your going to use a drop leg learn the proper placement for it, frankly a dropped offset owb holster is usually a much better choice, and frankly a properly positioned dropleg is in a very similar place as the doh.
- unless its a complete soup sammich, finish the course with the gear you started..... dont be that guy swapping things around every hour and running several different guns.... it just makes you look like a noob, your gear should be squared away before course, any changes can be done afterward when your much more educated.
an indoor carbine course is going to be about 100yd and under shots probably using reduced size targets to simulate longer range, weapons manipulation/clearence drills and magazine changes, transition drills and shooting from both shoulders is whais going to be taught as well as shooting positions..... one of the better things to practice before going is how to safely setup and clear your fifle of type 1-4 malfunctions
my .02$
Horses for courses - a PDW is used for PDW work, they are a viable tool, but have certain characteristics that require more attention be paid to certain things. Really short guns can lead to muzzle discipline issues - they don't have to, but if you get lazy they will. Short rifles can also be more finnicky, be sure the rifle is cleaned, thoroughly before, during and after day one and before and during day 2. The last thing you want or need is a gun that craps the bed because it's dirty. The majority of courses will not allow a Serpa, unless it is your issued rig, as previously noted. Keep the gear simple, the hottest rig on the planet is only any good if you are comfortable in it and can use it's functionality. Put pouches, holsters, IFAK if you have one where they make sense to you, practice accessing them and once comfortable leave them there for the duration. Talk to your instructor, ask questions, when in doubt, make sure your muzzle is safe and your trigger is clear and do not move beyond what is needed to indicate an issue. Call your reloads, and have fun. There is nothing as enjoyable as spending a weekend on a range with good shooters learning from great shooters. It's the next step in shooting, once you start taking courses, you're no longer "an average shooter".
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
I only take courses in the States, so it's 16 inch all the time...
Use what you're going to shoot. A PDW is ideal if you're generally mounted, but there's a reason why the standard is 14.5"... 5.56mm loses a LOT of effectiveness below that length. Sub 10.5" and you're practically better off with a large pistol.
I find drop legs are inferior to a belt holster with a drop offset. They move too much, even when worn correctly (i.e.: high enough to squeeze your junk). I almost exclusively run BladeTech with a DOH, which allows clearance of my tac vest.
I'd get all your gear placement ironed out long before investing in a course... Figure out where placing mags and pouches works for you, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. You don't need to spend several $100s (or even $1000s) on a course until you're quicksilver smooth on your draw and mag changes. Effective and efficient manipulation is what makes the difference IME.
Good luck!
Use what you're going to shoot. A PDW is ideal if you're generally mounted, but there's a reason why the standard is 14.5"... 5.56mm loses a LOT of effectiveness below that length. Sub 10.5" and you're practically better off with a large pistol.
I find drop legs are inferior to a belt holster with a drop offset. They move too much, even when worn correctly (i.e.: high enough to squeeze your junk). I almost exclusively run BladeTech with a DOH, which allows clearance of my tac vest.
I'd get all your gear placement ironed out long before investing in a course... Figure out where placing mags and pouches works for you, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. You don't need to spend several $100s (or even $1000s) on a course until you're quicksilver smooth on your draw and mag changes. Effective and efficient manipulation is what makes the difference IME.
Good luck!
