Carcano calverycarbine

[dagc]

Is there a reason why the TS versions are more popular than the cavalry carbine or 91/24's? They sell fastest on Corwin-Arms' website. I personally think the cavalry carbines are the neatest but I don't know enough about the Carcanos to understand the popularity of the TS.

According to C&Rsenal on youtube the TS just meant it was for troops that didn't need a full length rifle, like artillery, transport drivers, rear echelon, etc. What am I missing?

I don't have a TS but do have a calvary carbine from EE and a 91/24 recently. I picked up a few clips and reloading components. Waiting for the weather to improve before I try out a ladder test.

These carbines are so darn cute!

 

[Eaglelord17]

Well a few advantages to the TS is it is a more conventional style of short rifle/carbine (the cavalry carbines look pretty ugly to me in form). The sideways mounted bayonets on the early ones are pretty cool. The 91/24 is to me the least desirable to me as the barrels are gain twist rifling and they cut off the most important end to it, vs a TS or cavalry carbine which still has the proper twist rate (ok for collecting, not so good for shooting). And the TS variants are harder to find 880,000 M91 TS made plus another 200,000 M38 TS vs 780,000 M91 cavalry and 1,610,000 M38 cavalry.

My M91 Cavalry carbine came in today, 1900 Brescia manufacture with it the later updates (handguard and later pattern locking system). Stock might be a replacement from the rebuild or original, I haven’t figured that out yet as it has the Terni manufacturing marking on it, but it has a Brescia acceptance marking as well which is odd as if the stock was a replacement I don’t see why Brescia would be marking it. Maybe Brescia was subcontracting stocks from Terni in 1900? I’ll put up some photos later when I clean it up.

 

[caramel]

Mine did cleaned up well with Heritage Micro cristalinne wax and 0000 steel whool. Waiting for the enbloc. Cool rifle. PB is down, will pickup later.

 

[Falcorn]

Is there a reason why the TS versions are more popular than the cavalry carbine or 91/24's? They sell fastest on Corwin-Arms' website.

American Rifleman, issue from 1963. Third from the top left - Oswald picked one without the scope for 12.88. Scope was installed later.

 

[dagc]

American Rifleman, issue from 1963. Third from the top left - Oswald picked one without the scope for 12.88. Scope was installed later.

Good to know, thanks.

I did know about the gain twist rifling removal in the 91/24's. I suspect the shortened 91/24 was probably still good enough for the battlefield.

These carbines are certainly affordable at under $400. Corwin-Arms has a bunch more TS versions just put up for sale today.

 

[dakotamar]

I definitely like the TS over the cavalry for looks. That is why I bought it first, I would of bought another one of those instead of the cavalry one that I bought next, but oh well, now I will have three variants as I have the M91 already. Next to try some different loads. the last time I took the M91 out it was keyholing and not liking the loads I made. hopefully these will be better.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Good to know, thanks.

I did know about the gain twist rifling removal in the 91/24's. I suspect the shortened 91/24 was probably still good enough for the battlefield.

These carbines are certainly affordable at under $400. Corwin-Arms has a bunch more TS versions just put up for sale today.

Personally I suspect the loss of accuracy was partially what drove the Italians to stop converting M91 rifles and return to making the updated TS carbines. They aren't actually 400$ though, just around 500$ when it is all factored in (which is how I view milsurp purchases as when your buying used it is all in on price). Still not a bad option I don't think there is really much potential to lose much money on these long term.

I basically look at the Carcano as the most average firearm ever issued. It does everything ok, but nothing amazingly. Actually it does have one nice advantage over all the others it is compared to, and that is it is much lighter than any other comparable sized military issued bolt action.

 

[polaris]

BTW, what's a "calverycarbine"?

Is it the assault weapon of the MDRIF






"mounted donkey rapid intervention forces?

lol

 

[caramel]

Cool rifle. Just ordered a TS to unite with my cavalry Carcano. They are inexpensive, a new caliber in the herd. Thanks to Corwins for bringing those.

 

[dagc]

I definitely like the TS over the cavalry for looks. That is why I bought it first, I would of bought another one of those instead of the cavalry one that I bought next, but oh well, now I will have three variants as I have the M91 already. Next to try some different loads. the last time I took the M91 out it was keyholing and not liking the loads I made. hopefully these will be better.

I have the same keyholing problem with a 6.5mm Arisaka carbine and FMJ bullets. I am going to try cast bullets that are at least 2 thou' wider next.

Personally I suspect the loss of accuracy was partially what drove the Italians to stop converting M91 rifles and return to making the updated TS carbines. They aren't actually 400$ though, just around 500$ when it is all factored in (which is how I view milsurp purchases as when your buying used it is all in on price). Still not a bad option I don't think there is really much potential to lose much money on these long term.

$500? Do you pay PST even if it's shipped from BC? PST would take the price up. I'm in Alberta so no PST.

6.5 milsurps are a blast to shoot. There's little recoil and the carbine versions are so easy to handle.

 

[sledge]

American Rifleman, issue from 1963. Third from the top left - Oswald picked one without the scope for 12.88. Scope was installed later.

Oswalds rifle was not a TS but a 91/38 in 6.5. IMHO if he used iron sights instead of the scope - which was offset like the Garand M1Ds. I have a retro mount and original scope set up as an Oswald clone. I think if he used the iron sights instead of the scope he would have hit high at such close range. 200m "Carcano hold" at 86yds would be a good foot high. Hence the miss and two high shots - upper back and head. If he was aiming for center of mass. But I think it's only natural to aim at center of mass at a moving target under stress, especially if you also train to shoot in that spot as well - as was the case in his military training.
I believe the 91/38s are much more accurate then the TS's. The barrel is a bit longer, and it's not a gain twist barrel cut down, but a new 6.5 barrel. Many of these rifles surplused were near mint condition - having been issued in the middle of the war when the Italian fighting in Africa was coming to an end.

 

[sledge]

BTW, what's a "calverycarbine"?

Is it the assault weapon of the MDRIF






"mounted donkey rapid intervention forces?

lol

I guess you never heard of the Ariete Division, the Machi C.202, and the Decima Flottiglia MAS?

 

[raindog]

Good news, after many months, Numrich has restocked replica clips at a decent price.

Not quite so good, the Cavalry Carbine I received from Corwin was poorer than I expected. While the metalwork could be described as "good" the miss matched stock was beat to death and in only "fair" condition at best. I have been very happy with my purchases from them in the past, but I must have picked badly this time. It is shooter grade, too rough to be collectible, IMHO.

Only problem, is Numrich is out of stock, and has been for months. While I cannot say from experience, I had read single loading with out the clip may cause extractor breakage......another difficult to find part. Of course, it is "out of stock" there as well.

Perhaps Carcano experts will dispute this, and I will be glad to stand corrected.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Oswalds rifle was not a TS but a 91/38 in 6.5. IMHO if he used iron sights instead of the scope - which was offset like the Garand M1Ds. I have a retro mount and original scope set up as an Oswald clone. I think if he used the iron sights instead of the scope he would have hit high at such close range. 200m "Carcano hold" at 86yds would be a good foot high. Hence the miss and two high shots - upper back and head. If he was aiming for center of mass. But I think it's only natural to aim at center of mass at a moving target under stress, especially if you also train to shoot in that spot as well - as was the case in his military training.
I believe the 91/38s are much more accurate then the TS's. The barrel is a bit longer, and it's not a gain twist barrel cut down, but a new 6.5 barrel. Many of these rifles surplused were near mint condition - having been issued in the middle of the war when the Italian fighting in Africa was coming to an end.

TSs don't have cut down gain twist barrels, only the M91/24s do. I would say that a equal condition TS and a M91/38 should be on a pretty equal playing field, if not having the advantage going to the TS due to the gain twist rifling. That being said the main reason the Italians stopped using gain twist rifling was more due to the need for it went away with the development of better smokeless powder (the rate they burned through barrels early on was ridiculous).

So here is my carbine, 1900 Brescia manufactured. All the later updates (handguard added, later style bayonet locking system, the bolt is a later model with the extractor cut off to the side of the bolt lug not through it). Serial numbers match on the stock and barrel and the receiver and barrel have the same assembly numbers under the wood. Stock may or may have not been a replacement as it was made by Terni, however it has a Brescia acceptance marking on the side as well which makes me lean towards a contracted out stock as opposed to a replacement one as why would Brescia put their marking on it if it was just from being refurbished?

Rifle shoots ok. I need to play with it a bit to figure out exactly where to aim and see what type of group I can then get, but the 24rds I fired the other day at 50m all went off, no feeding issues, and none of them keyholed (a big concern for me as this is PPU ammo I bought). This is the smoothest Carcano I have owned, but that isn't really saying a lot. Still better than any Mosin though.

 

[Falcorn]

Oswalds rifle was not a TS but a 91/38 in 6.5. IMHO if he used iron sights instead of the scope - which was offset like the Garand M1Ds. I have a retro mount and original scope set up as an Oswald clone. I think if he used the iron sights instead of the scope he would have hit high at such close range. 200m "Carcano hold" at 86yds would be a good foot high. Hence the miss and two high shots - upper back and head. If he was aiming for center of mass. But I think it's only natural to aim at center of mass at a moving target under stress, especially if you also train to shoot in that spot as well - as was the case in his military training.
I believe the 91/38s are much more accurate then the TS's. The barrel is a bit longer, and it's not a gain twist barrel cut down, but a new 6.5 barrel. Many of these rifles surplused were near mint condition - having been issued in the middle of the war when the Italian fighting in Africa was coming to an end.

I'm aware that he has 91/38, not TS. But TS represents infamous weapon much closer than cavalry carbine - hence popularity, IMHO.

Funny enough, I also have 91/38 with repro mount and period scope and agree with you on opinion that scope is not a good idea at the given range. As far as I know, he didn't have any scope training during his service.
But, scope was deliberately installed after rifle was purchased, according official story.

 

[Deathrawt]

Good news, after many months Numrich has restocked replica clips at a decent price - https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/499620 .

Not quite so good, the Cavalry Carbine I received from Corwin was poorer than I expected. While the metalwork could be described as "good" the miss matched stock was beat to death and in only "fair" condition at best. I have been very happy with my purchases from them in the past, but I must have picked badly this time. It is shooter grade, too rough to be collectible, IMHO.

The one I recieved is pretty beat up as well
The stock matches the ser number of the rifle though
Quite a bit of pitting on the metal and the bayonet is bent
Not much bluing on it
Bore looks good though so hopefully it shoots ok
These rifles must have had poor storage over the years
Does anyone know if these were ever refurbed or not?

 

[caramel]

My Carcano carbine is a good +.

 

[polaris]

I read somewhere that these rifles came out Ethiopia; These guys sure know how to take care of their guns.

 

[corwin-arms]

This ones are not from Ethiopia they are Ex Italian Polizia di Stato and Carabinieri reserve guns that were stored in late 40s. Last November Italian government surplussed bunch of Garands, Carcanos and various Beretta Pistols that were held in reserve and originally were meant to be destroyed per UN disarmament commitments

 

[Deathrawt]

Hi Corwin, so these are ex Italian police guns then?
Do you know if they ever went through a refurbishment years ago?
They look to be in original condition to me
Glad we got to save them from the un smelter