Carcano... Frankinsportster gone wrong?

[Striker33]

Hey guys,

I need your help identifying this franken sportster that my dad gave to me. First off it is UGLY... even more than the average carcano. The stock is someones idea of sporting it. the rear sight is missing... but there are no scope mounts. I think is is a double trigger set, but one of the triggers appears to be missing. Can anyone give me any ideas as to what the help this was, so that I can get it back to it's original ugly? Where the heck do I get a double trigger for this. Is this a toss into the back of my safe until I need more room, at which point I discard?

 

[bearhunter]

I've seen a lot worse than that.

That rifle is a commercial conversion for T Eaton Company.

It had a dual set trigger mechanism installed and was rechambered to 6.5x53 manlicher schoenour. It has also had the mag well modified with spring lips to hold the ammo, without special clips.

It has had a sporting style stock added, the barrel has been shortened and some not bad sights installed.

Someone has cut off the set trigger. Many shooters can't learn how to use them.

If it is cleaned up, it will likely work very well and even shoot well.

I used one of them for a couple of seasons and found it to be quite reliable.

I agree its fugly but so are Savage bolt actions. The Savage rifles shoot like lazers and are well designed. The work reliably and are reasonably priced. That is a good way to describe your rifle.

 

[Nabs]

It also seems to have a brass enbloc clip too. They are difficult to find on the loose.

Is the maker and barrel date still visible on the knox form by chance ?

 

[smellie]

The work was done by Howard W. Cooey, on contract for the T. Eaton mail-order house.

Generally they are termed "Cooey Carcanos". There have been half a dozen threads on these in this forum in recent months. Use the SEARCH, such as it is.

These were Italian Fucile 91 long rifles which were reworked into pretty decent budget-priced sporters taking one of the world's legendary cartridges.

Stocks were chopped, the chopped wood being used to make the pistol-grip and fill the cleaning-rod hole. Wood was kept with the rifle it came from, accounting for the perfect match when refinished.

Original barrels were 32 inches gain-twist. These were lopped, chambers being kept, counterbored and threaded. Then a new barrel section which was constant-twist with the superb Cooey 8-groove shallow rifling was screwed in and secured. Sounds Mickey Mouse but it works very well. DON'T lose the littl set-screw which secures things.

Lightweight, accurate, reliable and tough enough to handle the worst that this country can dish out in a bad winter: definitely worth keeping.

BTW, you have the stub of the trigger still there. Just needs a bit welded on and smoothed down.

Trade-Ex has brass, everyone has dies. You use regular .263" - .264" slugs in this one, NOT the special Carcano .268 type.

Hope this helps.

 

[buffdog]

.
It is really not that bad that a bit of time and effort can not heal. There is a dovetail where a rear sight can be slipped into, and any competent gunsmith could weld an old parts box trigger onto that stub. That is the set trigger that is missing, and it does not take a lot of effort or pressure to pull it after it has been set.

As SMELLIE mentioned, dies, brass, and bullets are available. Even loaded ammunition, but that stuff is fairly expensive.

Mounting a scope is really not too good of an option, due to the en-bloc clip loading, so it will probably end up being a "fun gun" that you take along to shoot at the range. The cartridge is effective enough to drop a Deer, and when these were available from the mail order stores like Eatons, probably many Deer fell to them, along with Moose and other Game animals.

Many of us reload cartridges for these and other Italian rifles, and shoot them for fun. I think there are three of them that I have, along with a couple of the long barreled Italian rifles that give a surprise to a lot of people who see them in use on the range and/or shoot them.

 

[Striker33]

Thanks guys, at least now I know where to start looking.

Cooey carano, eh? I spent a hour cleaning it up, and trying to get the bolt assembly figured out (I finally did). It seems to be in good working order with a clean bore. Th only markings on the gun are a 6.5MM on the top, 195 stamped in 2 places on the bottom, and a 2 over a 17. I will take a look and see if I can find out more. It doesn't really fit my collection, so it may be looking for a new home. I wanted get it in nice working order before I decide.
The brass "clip" is present.

 

[Nabs]

I'm confused, were the Cooey carcanos left in 6.5 Carcano or rechambered for 6.5 Mannlicher Schönauer ?

I am also curious if the enbloc clips were fixed into the magazine or did they have to be loaded like a regular Carcano ?

 

[Striker33]

Mine is loaded. It drops out the bottom when released

 

[smellie]

I have 2 of these, Nabs, and both require the Clips in order to function.

They appear to have MS chambers and guys seem to be shooting them like that. That would have made a great deal of sense, the MS cartridge already being in production by the Dominion Cartridge Company and very famous, even then.

But then, there is so very little difference between a Carcano chamber and an MS chamber that sometimes it isn't even funny. The cartridges are VERY close.

I have fired 6.5 MS ammo in a M-38 6.5mm Carbine. It took a bit of cramming to get it IN but it came OUT okay. Muzzle blast was murder.

One thing is certain: the Cooeys have normal-sized bores. I would think that running proper Carcano ammo in them would give wonderful pressure spikes.

I need to repair a stock and load some ammo to go any farther.

The D.C. Company DID do a special run of ammo for these rifles. It was packed in PINK boxes of 20 rounds, only headstamp was "R". I will have to search out the couple rounds I have, actually measure them for a change! Ran into a full box of this stuff at a gun show about 4 or 5 years ago. At a HUNDRED bucks, it was a touch pricey for me! My two sample rounds came out of a junk box at the same show, cost two-bits each: more in my price range. I don't mind 5 or 10 bucks a pop for something I need to fill in a gap (such as a .276 Enfield, my next splurge, coming in December).... but NOT for tin-can-blasting ammo!

Hope this is some help.

 

[Nabs]

Thanks George, that does answer my questions. I have seen these Cooey carcanos at various gun shows but I didn't pay them too much attention until I got my first carcano, an M1891, and acquired a real good appreciation for the carcano design.

 

[bearhunter]

Nabs, you're right about the Carcano design. It is reliable and strong. Much stronger than most people realize. The only reason the 6.5 Carcano round seems so wimpy, is because the Italians preferred it that way. They were plenty powerful enough for their intended purpose.

I once had one that had been converted to 257 Roberts. It was a good job to. The rifle was light and well balanced. It also had a 1-10 twist rate.

I was concerned as to the strength of the action, so at first, I kept the loads to minimum specs.

PO Ackley was still around in those days and I called his shop for some information on the strength of the action. He told me to magnaflux the face of the receiver and if no cracks were present, work up to maximum if I desired. I did, then cut back a few grains as there wasn't any difference in velocity.

I sold that rifle to an outfitter's wife, just out of Prince George. About 10 years later, she still had it and still loved it.

The mag well had been modified by permanently fitting a charger that had been split down the back to accept the 257rob cases. It fed flawlessly.

A peep sight had been fitted to the bolt , to go along with the custom front sight. All in all, a very nice little rifle.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

It also seems to have a brass enbloc clip too. They are difficult to find on the loose.

Is the maker and barrel date still visible on the knox form by chance ?

I'm betting they brazed the clip in there to make the feed lips. Lot of good info here, anything Smellie doesnt know?

Grizz

 

[Sharps '63]

A silk purse out of a sow's ear! Best use of a less than illustrious milsurp I ever saw.

I've seen a lot worse than that.
I agree its fugly but so are Savage bolt actions. The Savage rifles shoot like lazers and are well designed. The work reliably and are reasonably priced. That is a good way to describe your rifle.

 

[Striker33]

What would this be worth as is verses fixing it up?

 

[smellie]

"Worth" is myb 100 bucks, possibly 150.

OTOH, it WILL keep you fed and happy nd your freezer full for about 3 bucks' worth of ammo a year.

NOT a bad deal, IMHO.

Certainly worth a gun-show 50-cent trigger and 5 minutes at the welding shop.

It is short, light, definitely handy, possibly one of the finest bush cartridges ever made....... and I don't think the man has yet been born who could say that Howard Cooey made a crappy barrel..... not and PROVE it, anyway.

Of course, you COULD dump that POS and head for the gun shop, pick up a nice new Steyr-Mannlicher Sporter in 6.5x54MS and slap a $3600 scope onto it.

It will do EXACTLY the same job......

......with the SAME box of shells.

Your choice.