Maybe the pictures don't correlate, I'll look when iam home from work. But mine all have the cannelure and were measuring .267
Carcano shooting
- Thread starter Claven2
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Maybe the pictures don't correlate, I'll look when iam home from work. But mine all have the cannelure and were measuring .267
Mine have no cannelure and measure 0.268". They are from Lot # 02-272 (2002?).
There apparently was a design change by 2006, as that catalogue shows a cannelure and 0.267"
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small update on my part. Got the range and did some more shooting with a moschetto.
First I shot about 20 rounds of the PPU 123gn FBSPs. These are .264" (micrometered). With the front sight buried at the bottom of the V, and a 6'oclock hold across the bottom of the paper on a standard 100m Champion rifle target, the bullets were striking about 20 inches high for my rifle (actually they hit a second target stapled above the target I was aiming at). About 5 MOA per 5 rounds spread, though it's hard to shoot accurately with the front sight blade so much lower than the target. It's likely shooting a little tighter than that, some of the issue will be the sub-optimal sight picture. Zero extraction or pressure issues, but these are factory rounds. I did not have my chrono with me, so not sure how fast they were moving, but I suspect pretty fast. Next time I'll chrono them.
Next I tried handloads with the .267" PPU 139gn FMJBTs (sold as .268"). Loaded 28gn of H4895, WLR primers, PPU brass. I only had 6 test rounds with me. I used a POA identical to the above factory rounds. All 6 rounds fired well, no overpressure signs at all, bolt opened and worked smoothly on every shot. I have no idea how they shot, when I checked the 100m target, no holes - all the bullets struck the dirt 4 inches below the target. So this load was shooting 2 feet (about 24 inches) lower than the factory PPU 123gn ammo. I'll have to make up more of these and hold with a more traditional point of aim - which should put me close to on-target at 100m.
What I learned - the heavier FMJs coupled with a slower powder (H4895) are shooting much lower (and likely slower) than factory PPU soft point. Also, these .267" bullets have a far shorter bearing surface than Hornady 268" RNSPs, and aren't showing any of the pressure warning signs the Hornady bullets did, even with a slower powder. I expect the jacket thickness is also standard and not beefed up like the hornady jacket.
First I shot about 20 rounds of the PPU 123gn FBSPs. These are .264" (micrometered). With the front sight buried at the bottom of the V, and a 6'oclock hold across the bottom of the paper on a standard 100m Champion rifle target, the bullets were striking about 20 inches high for my rifle (actually they hit a second target stapled above the target I was aiming at). About 5 MOA per 5 rounds spread, though it's hard to shoot accurately with the front sight blade so much lower than the target. It's likely shooting a little tighter than that, some of the issue will be the sub-optimal sight picture. Zero extraction or pressure issues, but these are factory rounds. I did not have my chrono with me, so not sure how fast they were moving, but I suspect pretty fast. Next time I'll chrono them.
Next I tried handloads with the .267" PPU 139gn FMJBTs (sold as .268"). Loaded 28gn of H4895, WLR primers, PPU brass. I only had 6 test rounds with me. I used a POA identical to the above factory rounds. All 6 rounds fired well, no overpressure signs at all, bolt opened and worked smoothly on every shot. I have no idea how they shot, when I checked the 100m target, no holes - all the bullets struck the dirt 4 inches below the target. So this load was shooting 2 feet (about 24 inches) lower than the factory PPU 123gn ammo. I'll have to make up more of these and hold with a more traditional point of aim - which should put me close to on-target at 100m.
What I learned - the heavier FMJs coupled with a slower powder (H4895) are shooting much lower (and likely slower) than factory PPU soft point. Also, these .267" bullets have a far shorter bearing surface than Hornady 268" RNSPs, and aren't showing any of the pressure warning signs the Hornady bullets did, even with a slower powder. I expect the jacket thickness is also standard and not beefed up like the hornady jacket.
That 28gr of H4895 is the starting load according to Hodgdon, albeit with a 140gr Nosler Patition along with a Federal 210 and Norma brass, they claim 1904 fps in a 21 inch barrel.
5 MOA is not bad considering the short sight radius and what may be undersized bullets.
The good thing about the adjustable sight models is the adjustment obviously. My notes have quite a few examples of having to use the 300, 400, 500 meter sight settings with reloads 200-400 fps slower than "factory"
5 MOA is not bad considering the short sight radius and what may be undersized bullets.
The good thing about the adjustable sight models is the adjustment obviously. My notes have quite a few examples of having to use the 300, 400, 500 meter sight settings with reloads 200-400 fps slower than "factory"
Glad to hear you didn't have any issues Claven, do you have a 50m board to try? If the rifles is sighted at 200 that should put you almost dead on at 50. Would be a good way to look at groups for sure, keep the same style POA
I believe the Moschetto is sighted to a 300m battle zero, not 200 - for reasons that likely only made sense in the 1890's
All that said, I would normally start at 50, move out to 100, etc. - but I only brought 6 of those rounds to test for pressure warning signs. It was not my intention to load 50+ rounds, have the test go bad in the first 6 shots, and then have to break down 44 rounds
Next time I'll load more and shoot the .267" PPU bullet for groups.
That is great info, however, I can attest to the fact that the PPU Cartridge and Bullet Article numbers are absolutely nowhere on the outer box or inner box.
The SP 123 gr I have here do have the bullet diameter on the front of the box (unfortunately in my case they are .264 so apparently are A-205/B-117)
If you look at what Marstar (for example) is selling for 139 FMJ BT the box says 139 gr only, no bullet diameter. Their listing and SKU has no indication of the PPU Article Number
https://marstar.ca/product/ppu-6-5x52-carcano-fmj-bt-139-grain-20rds/
Their 123 grain similarly has no indication on the box nor their page what diameter bullet is in them
https://marstar.ca/product/6-5x52-carcano-ammo-123/
In my case the box says .264 (and I measured same) but unless the seller has the PPU article number listed you are taking a chance
- photos are also not always correct....
Tenda for example uses 123 gr box on their 139 gr page and edits out the SP 123 gr | 8,0 g on the front (leaving the side of the box info as 123) lol
https://www.gotenda.com/product/prvi-ppu-6-5x52-carcano-ammunition-139-gr-fmj-bt-box-of-20/
I do see FOC has the A208 Part # on their website for 139 FMJ BT which shows .264 on box.
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.co...6-5x52-carcano-139gr-fmj-box-of-20-a208-.html
Claven2 can you ask the Mods if they can make this thread a sticky?
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Oh I had though the OP could request the Mods take a look at a thread for a sticky..... OK
Two quick thoughts:
1. for guns that shoot very high, a quick, effective (temporary) front sight can be constructed with a hose clamp and a piece of thick wire such as coat hanger. Bend the wire 90 degrees, dip in red paint and afix near the muzzle. It can be "adjusted" by cutting it down with wire cutters, establishing the height you want for future application with a more permanent front sight; and
2. it would be interesting to take a flat-base 0.264" bullet like the Hornady #2640 160 gr and drill a shallow 3/16" (0.1875") hole in the base, just deep enough to fully penetrate the jacket on the base, to encourage obturation.
This one now weighs 156.5 grs.
1. for guns that shoot very high, a quick, effective (temporary) front sight can be constructed with a hose clamp and a piece of thick wire such as coat hanger. Bend the wire 90 degrees, dip in red paint and afix near the muzzle. It can be "adjusted" by cutting it down with wire cutters, establishing the height you want for future application with a more permanent front sight; and
2. it would be interesting to take a flat-base 0.264" bullet like the Hornady #2640 160 gr and drill a shallow 3/16" (0.1875") hole in the base, just deep enough to fully penetrate the jacket on the base, to encourage obturation.
This one now weighs 156.5 grs.
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My first Carcano I built up the front sight with JB weld to make a "standard" hold (of front sight blade at the top of the 'v' rear) give me the same POA/POI at 100 yards. I haven't brought the new Carcano to the range yet, but I might end up having to do the same thing. My only concern now is I am running out of the 145gr Jet Bullets I was loading and I have made a deal in the EE to buy a load of 163gr, so my front sight may require adjustment when I switch to the new bullet weight
There's a long thread on Gunboards on this very topic: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/modern-0-263-to-0-268-projectiles-for-carcano-reloading.1215320/
There is (of course) "DocAV" preaching what he states is "the truth", and a combination of his followers and various heretics providing comments, but little else.
Worth a look.
That said while much information is shared, critical thinking is often lacking, and I MUCH prefer the environment here.
There is (of course) "DocAV" preaching what he states is "the truth", and a combination of his followers and various heretics providing comments, but little else.
Worth a look.
That said while much information is shared, critical thinking is often lacking, and I MUCH prefer the environment here.
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Let us know how that shoots Andy! Looks possibly promising.
A pic of a 0.277" jacketed bullet intended for use in the 270 Win, sized down to 0.267". The die is 0.266", but jacketed bullets tend to "spring back" - perfect for this application.
L to R - Bullet Used, original 0.277", sized to 0.267"
The original bullet was 1.100" long, resized it's 1.130".
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Just thinking out loud, but there appear to be a few resizing options.
Run a larger bullet through a .267 die.
Run the front 2/3s of a .267 bullet into a .257 (bore riding diameter) die.
Place a .264 (or .257) bullet in a die and bump up its base to .267. This would require a die cavity closely contoured to match the bullet. The base could be punted in at the same time.
Run a larger bullet through a .267 die.
Run the front 2/3s of a .267 bullet into a .257 (bore riding diameter) die.
Place a .264 (or .257) bullet in a die and bump up its base to .267. This would require a die cavity closely contoured to match the bullet. The base could be punted in at the same time.
Andy did you do that in multiple steps, of just one swage?
When you going shooting to try some things out?
