Carcano shooting

Fyi, if gain twist, it will measure around 1:12 from the breech and around 1:10 from the muzzle. In reality, right at the muzzle, it's really about 1:8, but.your reading is over an accelerating twist over 10 inches, so it "looks" slower twist than it is.

I've had no joy measuring it with a cleaning rod. The bore is excellent and I can count the groves, using a bit of math I get a twist of ~1:10 looking down the bore, any gain is imperceptible to my eye (not saying it isn't there).

The bore won't freely pass a .257 bullet.
 
What was the issue with the rod? Was it that the rod was not rotating? If that's the case, double up the patches until you can just get it started on a round jag. The patches should grip the rifling and cause for rod to turn with the twist rate. Use a solid rod, not a segmented aluminum garbage rod.
 
Yeah, I've done all that with the patches, most I've got is a 1/4 turn. Must be the segmented rod.

Doesn't much matter at this point, have 4 bullets 100-160 grains to try.
 
Probably a question better suited to the reloading section, but does anyone have some info for some 165gr cast bullet loads? I've been successfully shooting 143gr over 10.0gr of Unique, but the new cast bullets I bought are ~165 grains. My reloading manuals max out at 145gr for cast and my Google-fu hasn't worked very well for me today
 
Probably a question better suited to the reloading section, but does anyone have some info for some 165gr cast bullet loads? I've been successfully shooting 143gr over 10.0gr of Unique, but the new cast bullets I bought are ~165 grains. My reloading manuals max out at 145gr for cast and my Google-fu hasn't worked very well for me today

I posted a load earlier in this thread but have not yet tried it. When my mild handles arrive for my noe 165gn mold, I'll try to report real results.
 
When I get that all set up, I'll maybe need some advice on a good 165gn starting load. I found some GB data from a few years back where guys were getting good results starting with 14.0gn of 4227 - I might start there.

What I wrote a few pages back.
 
"When I get that all set up, I'll maybe need some advice on a good 165gn starting load. I found some GB data from a few years back where guys were getting good results starting with 14.0gn of 4227 - I might start there."

What I wrote a few pages back.

Thanks I must have missed that. I don't currently have 4227, so I'll wait for your report before I go purchasing some
 
I found an interesting paraphrased translation from a ww1 era Italian manual in another forum back in 2020 that explains a little about how these rifles were aimed.

During the test on a target at 200 meters (218 yards) the rear sight was set to use the 300 meter notch (rear sight leaf folded forward), the rifle was aimed using the normal standard typical sighting in picture of the inverted V of the front sight in the top of the V rear sight, not burrying it within the notch, to aim in the center of a 10 centimetre (3 15⁄16 inch) circle target. They would fire 6 shots then would measure the distances the impact of the bullets were at on the target. The precision of the rifles was not regulated in how many shoots will enter in the "bullseye" but about the dimension of the group of holes on the target.
The group of shots must be within a maximum to a distance of 20 centimetres (7 7⁄8 inch) from the center of the bullseye in all directions The group of shots must be in a ellipse maximum 12 centimetres (4 23⁄32 inch in height and 10 centimetres (3 15/16 inch) left or right of it.

So in other words, at 200m, using the battle sight in a fixed shooting jig, the gun was expected to perform a little over 2 moa and hit within 7 inches of point if aim. Presumably it would be bang on at 300m and about 3moa. All with the 160gn service ammunition.

This would have been with the earlier adjustable sights with a deep rear v-notch, as the manual predated the m38 guns.

For those that don't know. The 38 series rifles with fixed sights have a shallower rear sight notch similar to a Mauser sight picture. They were also sighted to 300m (the 6.5mm guns - the 7.35 versions were 200m).

The different depth rear sights with identical front sight assemblies lends credence to the Italian not burying the front post in the bottom of the V, otherwise m91s and m38s would shoot to vastly different points of impact, there is a 4mm difference in the sight notch depths.

I remain of the view that the service ammo with its heavier bullets shot lower than modern PPU ammo, and that Italians were taught to aim low close in, where accuracy is less important, and to shoot to point of aim between 200m and 300m. Hitting within 7 inches at 200m+ would have worked just fine in combat, noting they had iron sights only.

I do wish I had a stash of service ammo to do a bench test between ppu ammo and service ball. Perhaps one day I'll find some original stuff to test at 100m and 200m.
 
I found an interesting paraphrased translation from a ww1 era Italian manual in another forum back in 2020 that explains a little about how these rifles were aimed.



So in other words, at 200m, using the battle sight in a fixed shooting jig, the gun was expected to perform a little over 2 moa and hit within 7 inches of point if aim. Presumably it would be bang on at 300m and about 3moa. All with the 160gn service ammunition.

This would have been with the earlier adjustable sights with a deep rear v-notch, as the manual predated the m38 guns.

For those that don't know. The 38 series rifles with fixed sights have a shallower rear sight notch similar to a Mauser sight picture. They were also sighted to 300m (the 6.5mm guns - the 7.35 versions were 200m).

The different depth rear sights with identical front sight assemblies lends credence to the Italian not burying the front post in the bottom of the V, otherwise m91s and m38s would shoot to vastly different points of impact, there is a 4mm difference in the sight notch depths.

I remain of the view that the service ammo with its heavier bullets shot lower than modern PPU ammo, and that Italians were taught to aim low close in, where accuracy is less important, and to shoot to point of aim between 200m and 300m. Hitting within 7 inches at 200m+ would have worked just fine in combat, noting they had iron sights only.

I do wish I had a stash of service ammo to do a bench test between ppu ammo and service ball. Perhaps one day I'll find some original stuff to test at 100m and 200m.

Gut shots are very effective and center of mass shots are quite appropriate for disabling an enemy at any range, so their intended purpose was right on the money IMHO
 
slugged my latest rifle at .266

shot it today with factory ppu fmj and soft point

as expected about 14 inches high at 50m but it is shooting approx 7 inches to the left front sight is currently centered.
 
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yup but they are out of stock what else fits?

I haven't checked lately, but some 98 type Carbines also have higher front sights.

Other than that, it doesn't take a lot of effort to make one up. Let your ingenuity flow.

Maybe a higher front sight for a Lee Enfield would work??

I'll check when mine gets here
 
I haven't checked lately, but some 98 type Carbines also have higher front sights.

Other than that, it doesn't take a lot of effort to make one up. Let your ingenuity flow.

Maybe a higher front sight for a Lee Enfield would work??

I'll check when mine gets here

just checked Numrich swedish mauser 96 have a 7.5mm front sight which is taller then my carcano which is 5.6mm
 
Shot the 41 Brescia on the weekend, basically to chrono and harvest the brass. The Prvi 139gr FMJ BT (marked .264 on the box) shot ~24 inches high at 55 paces and a 6 shot, offhand group was 5". I suspect this stuff will shoot 5-6" groups off the bench at 100, which is perfectly acceptable given the short sight radius and how coarse the battle sight is.

Average velocity was 2201fps.

Going to buy a single shot adapter, I'd consider the repro clip to be junk.

I'm thinking reloads in the 1800-2000 fps range will shoot much closer to the sights.
 
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