ATR, Ive been following your comments throughout this thread and I have yet to find anything I haven't agreed with. Most of the younger people I know want the quick path to Bling and Benefits (my own kids included). When I first moved here in '90, I was one of 12 techs specialized in diesel fuel systems in that shop and there were 3 other shops in town. Now everybody wants over the counter exchange and as long as it's cheap and meets minimum specs, that's all they seem to care about. We used to have pride in our work and we felt it was an obligation to the customer to bring that piece of equipment back to original condition. When I left that shop, they were down to 3 techs and were basically doing exchange rebuilds to compete with Mexico. Where did our values go and why has the world seemed to change so fast? After I was injured on another job, I looked at getting into gunsmithing and was amazed to find out how little this country has in the way of training resources and standards. I took one of the "matchbook" courses and got enough info to maybe stock shelves in a gun store or at Cdn Tire. Talking with the few shops in this area, I found there wasn't much hope for any on the job training so I looked south to AGI. At least with the video courses you "feel like someone is teaching you" but unless you are buying used guns to work on and doing some work for friends, there is no hands on aspect to the education. Luckily I was in my trade long enough to have some background in small precision machining and have had to work with equipment manuals in German, Japanese and Russian because technical info always seems hard to come by in Canada. Now with parts getting hard to get from the U.S. and Canadian suppliers only shipping (the parts I always seem to need) to licensed gunsmiths, I sure feel tired of swimming upstream as you said. It just seems ridiculous that any training or certification you have is more important to the Insurance companies you need for liability than it is to the licencing agencies in this country. You can drop 10G on courses and another 10-20G on tools and equipment so fast it makes your head spin and you only hope it will still be a legal trade long enough to break even. Ah well, hope and pride in workmanship has kept me going this long I guess it'll keep me at it for a while yet. But like you said, you have to pick what it is that you want to work on and build your knowledge base accordingly. I suspect that some of the smiths who have gotten some bad revues are probably decent enough folk who just overextended their abilities when they should have turned a job away and found themselves in deep crap with no way out. 'Course that doesn't help anybody who has had a job go bad feel any better about it. Sometimes it's a fine line between following your dream and trying to make your payments.
Career as a gunsmith.
- Thread starter Slithery
- Start date
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Try a gov't style job where the work gets left at work (deliver the mail, pick up garbage, work at customs 
), spend the rest of the day at your business.
Be realistic about life style choices ($1,000 TV or equipment...).
Look for equipment at lumber mills, canneries... industries that employ(ed) millwrights.
If good at job can make money no matter what trade you're in. Agree that important to enjoy work (spend 1/2+ of time awake at it) but suggest that have to be able to look at whatever you are working with whether time or products as commodity. Its there to make money for you. If in the gun business you have to charge enough for parts and time to live - not doing it to make friends, not doing it for fun, doing it so can retire...
Also, unlike a hobby, when you wake up have to get up and at it, its work now, not a hobby... hence need to be careful what you wish for (in younger years I made $50 per hour detailing cars for rich people who did not want to handle a vacuum cleaner or spend time waxing, doing this to our own car(s) once every three months is fun, doing it four times a day not so much).
For your friend I would recommend she looks at her transferable skills - what is her network, can she use her knowledge to be a rep/sales/import a specific part... Is nice to charge per hour but only 24 hours in a day so ultimately can only make so much so unless you get people working for you sales may allow you to make more.
), spend the rest of the day at your business.Be realistic about life style choices ($1,000 TV or equipment...).
Look for equipment at lumber mills, canneries... industries that employ(ed) millwrights.
If good at job can make money no matter what trade you're in. Agree that important to enjoy work (spend 1/2+ of time awake at it) but suggest that have to be able to look at whatever you are working with whether time or products as commodity. Its there to make money for you. If in the gun business you have to charge enough for parts and time to live - not doing it to make friends, not doing it for fun, doing it so can retire...
Also, unlike a hobby, when you wake up have to get up and at it, its work now, not a hobby... hence need to be careful what you wish for (in younger years I made $50 per hour detailing cars for rich people who did not want to handle a vacuum cleaner or spend time waxing, doing this to our own car(s) once every three months is fun, doing it four times a day not so much).
For your friend I would recommend she looks at her transferable skills - what is her network, can she use her knowledge to be a rep/sales/import a specific part... Is nice to charge per hour but only 24 hours in a day so ultimately can only make so much so unless you get people working for you sales may allow you to make more.
??/
I may have the answer for ya.....theres a guy on here that is a crackerjack with a welder, he can fix or modify most firearms with a mig and file, perhaps look him up and share some "best practises".Look for his signature thread under...."i fixed my mini 14"
I may have the answer for ya.....theres a guy on here that is a crackerjack with a welder, he can fix or modify most firearms with a mig and file, perhaps look him up and share some "best practises".Look for his signature thread under...."i fixed my mini 14"
WOW 25%!!! In fixed wing it's more like 10% with 40 grand invested. I think today, maybe 65K for CPL-H is more like it. Been there, done that, doing something else now, but a thousand memories I couldn't get any other way, and hundreds of good friends with shared dreams.
Have we lost the guy who started this thread????
And still hardly anyone actually offered any really answers as to what it takes to become a gunsmith in Canada, i.e licensing, courses, certification etc.
Same thing happens over and over each time someone pops up with this question. A whole bunch of negative responses hiding behind "Facts are facts" and "Not trying to be a killjoy". Pessimism driven by their own lack of drive in this area or misguided desires is driving people away. Let people find their own paths.
Why not just answer the question for once? I'd love to know the answer to this one myself.
As some of the others pointed out, many careers take a huge investment in time and money but its really the personal commitment thats the killer. Thats not a bad thing, if everyone could do it, than it wouldn't make it special.
Any business takes a lot of hard work to get off the ground. Thats the difference between being an employee and a business owner.
There's not many short cuts to a good career or being a business owner. They all have their challenges and you better be doing something you love if you are going to be putting in the effort.
I hope some more actual gunsmiths like alberta tactical rifle join in and offer advice. I think there have even been offers on some of the other threads looking for apprentices.
Same thing happens over and over each time someone pops up with this question. A whole bunch of negative responses hiding behind "Facts are facts" and "Not trying to be a killjoy". Pessimism driven by their own lack of drive in this area or misguided desires is driving people away. Let people find their own paths.
Why not just answer the question for once? I'd love to know the answer to this one myself.
As some of the others pointed out, many careers take a huge investment in time and money but its really the personal commitment thats the killer. Thats not a bad thing, if everyone could do it, than it wouldn't make it special.
Any business takes a lot of hard work to get off the ground. Thats the difference between being an employee and a business owner.
There's not many short cuts to a good career or being a business owner. They all have their challenges and you better be doing something you love if you are going to be putting in the effort.
I hope some more actual gunsmiths like alberta tactical rifle join in and offer advice. I think there have even been offers on some of the other threads looking for apprentices.
The original "question" was...
She's interested in pursuing a career in firearms. She would like to be a gunsmith, but has no idea how to pursue it. Does she apply to a gunsmith who would take her as an apprentice? Are their courses she must take? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Lots of help was posted... and this subject has been posted and discussed many times.
You state, "Why not just answer the question for once? I'd love to know the answer to this one myself." ... and then you go on and not ask a specific question...
But you start your rant with, "And still hardly anyone actually offered any really answers as to what it takes to become a gunsmith in Canada, i.e licensing, courses, certification etc."
Federally to become a gunsmith in Canada - requires you pay the Federal Government a license fee and with your 'bought' license you can gunsmith. You don't need any courses or certification, etc. Some provinces may require things others don't.
The best gunsmithing schools are in the US and expensive today for 2 years or longer.
There is lots of good advice in this thread and in previous threads. Repeating it doesn't change it.
There was definitely some help offered, there was also a lot of discouragement offered disguised as friendly advice. The reason for my "rant" is because the threads always seem to devolve into complaints about how no one wants to get into the career or how hard it is to get into the career.
As far as my specific questions, I thought it was implied by my comment but here are a couple if anyone would be kind enough to answer.
1) I've never been able to find out about any federal or provinical licensing requirements other than regular business licensing? What if any licences are required to be a gunsmith in Canada? Is there a trade association?
2) What schools, Canadian or American, have good reputations for training in this trade?
mdragon9, did you read the article that I wrote on gunsmithing?
I posted the link to it on page 2
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67673
Was this not enough info for you?
How can I improve my article?
Please answer my questions. Thanks
I posted the link to it on page 2
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67673
Was this not enough info for you?
How can I improve my article?
Please answer my questions. Thanks
Wasn't I clear enough when I stated, "Federally to become a gunsmith in Canada - requires you pay the Federal Government a license fee and with your 'bought' license you can gunsmith. You don't need any courses or certification, etc. Some provinces may require things others don't.." ?
Trinidad State Junior College has one of the better gunsmithing courses... it has changed since I spent two years there but they now offer week long sessions...
http://www.nragunsmithing.com/trinidad.html
You can also google search ...
I'm more than a little shame faced that I missed your post on the other page Tootall, its an excellent article and I remember coming across it once before. Thanks very much for your contribution.
My honest answer for possible improvements would be to have the answers to two questions I've already posted. You Googled some US courses, and I've heard of a course in Quebec, but are there any with schools with good reputations, and on the business side, do you just need to have a firearms license?
I actually have a nephew who has some interest in pursuing this and I would like to help him if he gets serious about it.
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Actually....and I'm not being trying to be antagonistic...you weren't, I've been trying to find out what that license is called for awhile now. I've made a few phone calls and searched a few times and never found reference to it. If I haven't completely alienated you, would you miind spelling it out for me?
Well in B.C. and some other provinces you simply contact your Provincial Firearms Office and ask for a business license application... fill it out and send it back with your $100 gunsmithing fee... when they complete it and send you the license, hang it on your shop wall and start gunsmithing.
It is a Federal law that to do work on a firearm you need this business license. No gunsmithing ability is required in B.C. and some other provinces... I don't know what your province may require.
Soooo.....basically you are saying that the reason I can't find all the government hoops to jump through is because they don't exist!
I deal a lot with government agencies and not having to have a dozen different licences and certifications to do something is a bit strange to me.
Thanks for your patience!
- Location
- calgary alberta
mdragon
To the best of my knowledge there is ONLY 1 vocational center in Canada, in Quebec to be precise that actually offers anything credible. Whether it is taught in english at all I don't know. Every other decent full time school in North America is in the USA, which for Canadians means HUGE expense for the training.
As for licensing, each province has slightly different requirements, but throughout Canada there is NO recognized Journeyman gunsmith credentials like say a welder or mechanic has.
Some of us took schooling in the US like Guntech and myself, I know there are others, but most that were taught in the US either called the US home at some point or are from a generation where there was not nearly as much problem going to school there.
The CFO in each province is who 1 needs to contact for a "gunsmiths" licence. This has nothing to do with certification, competency or anything but cash, just a fee the feds charge for the priviledge of allowing us to work on firearms.
There are some add on fees as well depending on what you want to do. Simple gunsmithing is $100.00, a manufacturers licence like I have is ALOT more, add retail sales and a props licence to it and it is really pricey.
God forbid you start to work on or deal in "Controlled Goods" then you get LOTS of paper to display as well as annual security checks and living under a microscope by Big Brother.
Then there is the city business licences, insurance, additional security etc to consider.
Hope that helps.
To the best of my knowledge there is ONLY 1 vocational center in Canada, in Quebec to be precise that actually offers anything credible. Whether it is taught in english at all I don't know. Every other decent full time school in North America is in the USA, which for Canadians means HUGE expense for the training.
As for licensing, each province has slightly different requirements, but throughout Canada there is NO recognized Journeyman gunsmith credentials like say a welder or mechanic has.
Some of us took schooling in the US like Guntech and myself, I know there are others, but most that were taught in the US either called the US home at some point or are from a generation where there was not nearly as much problem going to school there.
The CFO in each province is who 1 needs to contact for a "gunsmiths" licence. This has nothing to do with certification, competency or anything but cash, just a fee the feds charge for the priviledge of allowing us to work on firearms.
There are some add on fees as well depending on what you want to do. Simple gunsmithing is $100.00, a manufacturers licence like I have is ALOT more, add retail sales and a props licence to it and it is really pricey.
God forbid you start to work on or deal in "Controlled Goods" then you get LOTS of paper to display as well as annual security checks and living under a microscope by Big Brother.
Then there is the city business licences, insurance, additional security etc to consider.
Hope that helps.
