CAS; want to get started

Cagunman

Cagunman

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Shediac, New Brunswick
Hey folks!
I`m very interested in CAS. I`ll be upgrading my PAL to RPAL in January 2010 so I can get the SA guns but will probably buy my 1st gun in the fall, likely the lever action will be 1st. My question has got to do with choosing a caliber from what I`m reading on here, .38/.357 ammo are less expensive than a .45C. I haven't looked into it but how much of a difference am I looking at? What else should I consider. Initially where am I likely to find the best price? The Internet.....:I understand that reloading is likely to be necessary.cheers:
 
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I went (still missing one SA) with .357 mag. in handgun and rifle. That way you just have to load one caliber (.38 spl) for all your CAS guns. Except the shotgun obviously.
Keep an eye on Ellwood Epps. They have some decent deals on Rugers sometimes.
 
Choosing the same caliber for rifle and pistols is wise.

Have a look at the rulebook on the SASS website. That would give you an idea of the categories and helps you making a choice.

I personnaly shoot .45 colt loaded with blackpowder and it is lots of fun!
 
I just started as well. I chose 357/38 spl- much less expensive than 45 LC. The 45 lC brass is hard to find, and unless you are doing your own re-loading, it is more expensive. I can get 38 spl re-loads right from our local range (it's an old police range), but 45 lC is very hard to find. However, finding a leaver in 357/38 can be a challenge.

Check the prices on Wolf's web site to get an idea of the cost differences.

LGH
 
I went with .38/.357 because I already had a couple of S&W revolvers in that caliber so it just made simple sense. Granted you're starting from scratch but if you think you may enjoy a double action revolver later then you may want to consider this in your choice.

In my case logic fell by the wayside and I went into the deep end with weights on my ankles for the revolvers when I managed to score a matched set of BP cap and ball percussion Uberti Remingtons.... :D The cap and ball is a whole heap of fun but there's more tinkering at the range to load them during the events. And I'm finding out now that while I can get the rig for them the style I'd like isn't that common due to the need for the extra long holsters unless I go with the more expensive custom option. They're GREAT fun though.... :D

But yeah, if you opt for the more historically correct 45LC then start shopping for brass and primers and a re-loading setup now. Bullets can be had but if you have troubles finding them you may need to consider casting your own. Otherwise the price of buying factory cowboy ammo will add up quick.

The lever guns in .357 are only hard to find since so many of us CAS folk are buying them up as quickly as they come in for all the reasons given here already. Same with the revolvers from what I've seen.

It's great fun with no attitudes on the part of the shooters. You're in for some great times at the range.
 
So!
Availability and price are the 2 deciding factor based on what you are all saying.
That does help.
Also sounds like reloading isn't really optional it's more like part & parcel of CAS.
 
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It's optional if you're shooting .38Spl but even then you'll want to hunt around your area for a source of reloads done by someone else to help you save some money. With .45LC or some other CAS options I think it becomes almost a neccesity to reload.
 
If you are going to choose .38/.357 as your Cowboy caliber, do your research first! Some rifles like my Browning B92 in .357 don't like .38 Special brass. I have 2 sets of Cowboy guns in both .357 & .44 magnum. You could end up with lots stovepipes and be forced into using .357 brass. Personally my main gear is in .44 Magnum, downloaded. As I get older I can hear the hit better on steel, if the target is paper, I can see the holes better and if the target is steel reactive, they go down faster.

Learn how to reload yourself, that way you know the quality of your own ammo, plus you can build loads that matched to your firearms for the maximum accuracy that you can squeeze out of your guns.
 
lgholden said:
I just started as well. I chose 357/38 spl- much less expensive than 45 LC. The 45 lC brass is hard to find, and unless you are doing your own re-loading, it is more expensive. I can get 38 spl re-loads right from our local range (it's an old police range), but 45 lC is very hard to find. However, finding a leaver in 357/38 can be a challenge.

Check the prices on Wolf's web site to get an idea of the cost differences.

LGH
Click to expand...

higginsonpowders carry's .45LC brass along with many others.
Most things are available just have to expand your search.
Some people are into CAS for the competition and fun,
and want to use .38/.357 for its light recoil.
With the cost of reloaded ammo going up, .38 is not cheap anymore.
While others are into it more as tradition and fun,
I myself prefer to use orriginal calibers.
I reload, and also cast my own bullets.
As fred said, keeping all guns in same caliber,
would be a big bonus.
When you reload (and you should) there is next to no difference in cost
between calibers.
Get a shooting buddy, and split equipment.
my .02
 
if you plan on being very competitive and shooting real fast with the lever gun resist the temptation to buy the cheaper 94"s & 92 Winchesters or clones as they will stove pipe on you at sometime or other. Buy a controled feed gun (Marlin 94, 66 -73 Uberti or Chaparell etc.) you will be happier with them. If you just want to have fun shooting cowboy without the stress of being competitive they all will work.

As for calibre be aware that some 45 LC guns because of thicker brass will not seal in the chamber as well as .38s do with cheaper light cowboy loads and will blow powder & residue back into your face.
 
fingers284 said:
if you plan on being very competitive and shooting real fast with the lever gun resist the temptation to buy the cheaper 94"s & 92 Winchesters or clones as they will stove pipe on you at sometime or other. Buy a controled feed gun (Marlin 94, 66 -73 Uberti or Chaparell etc.) you will be happier with them. If you just want to have fun shooting cowboy without the stress of being competitive they all will work.

As for calibre be aware that some 45 LC guns because of thicker brass will not seal in the chamber as well as .38s do with cheaper light cowboy loads and will blow powder & residue back into your face.
Click to expand...

Very true,
but "Trail boss" powder was spacifically designed to help alleviate
this problem.
 
I've been researching Lever action rifle and I am leaning toward the 1894 Marlin Cowboy. Doc Rowland is selling it at about the same price as the Puma M-92 since i'm starting fresh I'd rather take my time buy smart, anyway upgrading is always an option. From what I can tell these guns aren't that common on the second hand market or am I just not looking at the right places?
 
I went with the 44-40 in Vaqueros and and an 1873 Uberti rifle.
Other then a bit of a pain reloading the caliber due to lubing every case and crimping, the round is superbly accurate and has the power needed for heavy knock-down targets. Also, one load for all guns.
Tried Trail Boss with no success in 44-40, am trying it in 45-70 though...the jury is out yet on this one.
In 20 years of RSO duties on the firing line at CAS/Action shoots I have seen too many "good" rifles having to be repaired on the line due to malfunctions. The Marlin is the most common rifle needing extra attention, the 1894 Winchester in pistol calibers is the other that is usually being fixed in the the middle of a stage. Guys with the 1873 and 1892 clones are still shooting while Marlins/1894 Winchesters are being fixed.
I know a lot of you guys will spew your Tim Hortons all over the computer monitor as you read this and are furiously typing heated replies. As I mentioned, I have been watching other shooters as a RSO for over 20 years and this is what I have seen on the firing line...and it no B.S.. There are hundreds of guys who proclaim their guns are perfect...and a lot of these I have seen standing there cussing their Marlin in the middle of a stage.
This is why I am using an 1873 clone. I used to have a Browning B-92 in 44 Mag. It functioned flawlessly if fed the correct OAL ammo. Specifically, the "Keith type" 250 gr SWC in either 44 Mag or 44 Spl. brass. The same load did not work well in the pistols though...so they departed.
I have watched guys pound a cylinder of 38 Spl. onto a pepper popper and it just stood there and wiggled, while the 44-40 would knock it down every time.
I gave up trying to give guys advise as they usually blew it off and quoted how some top shooter used this or that at Trails End. The next year they are on the line cussing their choice of guns and caliber.
My advise now is watch guys shoot and pay close attention ot what works, what hits, and what knocks down. Then go from there...you will save your money in the long run.
Cheers
 
VICIOUS said:
http://www.oldwestguns.ca/products/index.php

Hi ; since you are in NB get in touch with Doc.
Less recoil faster times with 38 s , it is a timed competion .
Click to expand...

Less recoil, faster times, more missed shots added time for missing.
No real gain here.
Slow down make hits and your time will be the same if not better.

Remember...in Cowboy Action...speed just blurs the image.
 
Alonzo
I don't know what clubs you shoot at, but if I put a cylinder full of SASS legal 38sp into a target and it did not go down, any club I shoot at would automatically give me a reshoot.
Now I have not been shooting CAS for 20 years, but I did start in 92, I have also competed with all 3 rifles at one time or another and 3 different calibres 45, 38-40 and 38sp. I agree that the 73 clones are best for reliability, and speed, but only after they have been properly tuned, out of the box, they are too slow and stiff. I shoot one in 38, but I have put about $400US into parts, and countless hours into polishing and timing. Marlins are length sensitive and they need the lifter replaced or repaired after about 5-7k rounds, but they are easy to slickup, as anyone with basic skills and tools can strip and fine tune and polish them. Once you find the proper cartidge OAL they are extremely reliable, they are also about 2/3 the price of a Uberti 73. The 92 clones are prone to throw loaded rounds out the top when you really get going, unless they have been properly timed, and they are complicated to strip and tune.
Look at the pictures in the SASS Chronicle and on the Videos and you will see that the majority of rifles are 73s or Marlins, also Ruger revolvers.
For calibre I advise anybody who asks to use 38, easy to reload, brass is cheap and so are bullets compared to 44-40 and 45. If you want to practice enough to get good reloading 38s is much more affordable and if you do not reload you can buy comparably cheap factory loads in 38. Also I found by experience, if you compete in the US, you can not legally carry enough 44-40 or 45 on a plane to shoot EOT or WR.
Everyone who shoots CAS shoots for their own reasons, and is entitled to have their fun in any category or with any legal loads or firearms that they so desire. Having said that, if you want to compete at the top level 38s are the way to go.
CAS is all about hitting targets as fast as possible, slowing down is a negative statement, the trick is to shoot as fast as you can find the target and the front sight.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Your right about the 73's being better but have seen toggles & pins & springs from them laid out all over the unloading table too.

Your also right about more Marlins shutting down in mid-stage. But there is also 6 or 7out of every 10 rifles that come to the line are Marlins.

I still think that for a new shooter that does'nt reload a Marlin in .38 is a better choice (unless cost is not an issue, because the Uberti and factory 44-40 are much more costly).
 
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