Case Head Separation * Updates Post 5 and 12 Big Pic warning*

driller212

driller212

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Hey guys,

I know there are a few threads on this subject already, but they don't seem to hit right on the dot for me.

I had a case separation today after what seemed like a slam fire of two rounds (seemed like a short full auto burst). I went to look and my magazine feed ramp was depressed at a funny angle with some rounds stuck in it. I figured it had something to do with the magazine as the 30 rounders are somewhat notorious for failures etc, and I have never had such a problem with the rifle before (approx 2-300 rounds down the pipe since I have owned her). I checked the barrel for blockage and it was clear, so I go to load a fresh mag and do a kind of 'hillbilly safety check' and the rounds wont chamber. I look inside of the chamber and see about the top 1/4 of a case is stuck in there.

This rifle is basically newly tuned so I was wondering...

Is it possible I have excess head space? And how do I get this case out of my chamber without waiting weeks for a proper extractor?

And on a totally random note, does anyone know where I can get spare screws for my sage ebr chassis? I seem to have lost one that was stripped today (it wasnt my doing :p ).

EDIT: I forgot to mention this was new factory ammunition being fired, and not reloads.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

J
 
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Get a tap (or pipe tap) that will thread into the inside diameter of the brass (but not so big that you'll cut the chamber) then you can tap it out with a cleaning rod. In the mean time, order a case extractor so that you have one, and while you're at it, you can order a head space gauge too to check if it's okay.
 
Thank you malice, your help is much appreciated.

What caliber (7.62x51 vs .308) and brand of head space gauge is better?
 
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send me a p.m. , your work order should have had a headspace measurement on it.

what brand of ammo where you using?
 
it was federal jacketed. but after taking a second look the problem seems to be a little worse than I originally thought.

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The bolt appears to be a goner thanks to the huge dent. And I am truly at a loss as to how this occurred. Although I am new to this kind of thing. I guess it is just an excuse to get a GI bolt?
 
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wonder if the double you had was the first round seperated case head, second round a slam fire...... i would also be checking the safety bridge and rear of bolt for any obvious issues.
how long have you had it in a sage? (not that a sage stock would cause that)
did it pass the standard safety check for hammer lock back after it was installed? (I don't remember installing that for ya)
 
looking at those pics some more on my pc at home, that denting is a tell tale of a soft bolt. that should have cracked before denting like that. hard to explain the damage to the underside of the right bolt lug and the stud denting like that is nuts.

I'm leaning even more towrds a slam fire on the round after the case rupture.

anyone else care to give thoughts?
 
not so unusual in semi autos, I've seen similar in many platforms. mostly chalked up to ####ty brass or possible crap in chamber. would love to see the other part of the case.
 
I've seen a lot of case head separation in my time and I've never seen brass split like that. Usually it's by the head, and logic dictates it should happen like that based on what happens when you have generous headspace. If that was an out of battery, I expect the mag would have shot out of the bottom and the bolt would have had more than a dent in the roller. Theoretically both could do that, if it was a separation then the case was so stuck to the chamber walls during extraction that the bolt roller could have been under a stupid amount of tension. If it was an out of battery then the round went off as the brass was entering the chamber and the majority of the gas went down the barrel?

Quick question, was that round REALLY loud?
 
I was thinking the same thing along the lines of 'holy crap am I lucky this didn't blow up in my face'...

Doc, I have only had it in the sage for a few days now and have put about 200 rounds down it since install ( I installed it myself). I am unfamiliar with the standard safety check for hammer lock back... If I am thinking right and you mean what I call the #### and click test, then yes I did perform this test and the rifle performed fine.

Unfortunately I could not find the other part of the case after looking for about 10 mins.

Rocket Surgery said:
Usually it's by the head, and logic dictates it should happen like that based on what happens when you have generous headspace. If that was an out of battery, I expect the mag would have shot out of the bottom and the bolt would have had more than a dent in the roller. Theoretically both could do that, if it was a separation then the case was so stuck to the chamber walls during extraction that the bolt roller could have been under a stupid amount of tension. If it was an out of battery then the round went off as the brass was entering the chamber and the majority of the gas went down the barrel?

Quick question, was that round REALLY loud?
Click to expand...

Well the magazine follower and a couple of rounds were depressed at a funny angle almost 90 degrees to how they should be when I removed the magazine.

The two rounds fired in quick succession which as doc mentions probably indicates a slam fire, and I did not notice one being much louder than the other, although it is entirely possible that I just did not notice since the shots were in such rapid succession.

here are some pics of the receiver and the rear of the bolt:
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I've had "neck" seperations like that in an AR15 with American eagle ammo
I've had "neck" seperations (2 times) in an sks , one with silver box norc ammo and again with American Eagle.

And one 2 or 3 years ago in a M1A with SAK NM GI barrel and 1.632" headspace. Again, and the reason I never use it anymore, american eagle.

All of them seperated near identical to the photos. Result was failure to chamber the next round. Lucky for me nothing bad happened.

I'll bet 100 cash, that this was a neck seperation followed by a slam fire. But what do I know ;)
And yes... Driller, we should all be relieved that it wasn't a worse, "out of battery" detonation.
 
well you now have me successfully paranoid of ever using american eagle ammo ever again. and I still have more than 150 rounds of it :(

Hopefully the receiver is still good and I can just simply replace the bolt and op rod guide... Crossing my fingers...
 
Separation will occur at it's weakest point.
FYI. Here are pics of another head case separation for those who have not experienced them firsthand.

This Lapua brass had been reloaded 7 times through my M1A.

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Ok so basically, no American Eagle from now on. That's good to know because I only have one box of their ammo and it's 357 magnum. I don't even own a 357 anymore, so that's a bonus.

#### you are lucky driller. With the rapid shot like that it has to be slamfire and then out of battery or something like that.

The worst part about seeing this thread is that it's making me want to re-seat all my reloaded primers but I have already charged the cases. Now you think an out of battery is bad, try a round going off in a press with nothing to protect your face (or balls) except some safety googles and lacey panties.
 
Been there done that with my 22-250. I use a bore brush that is slightly oversized for the stuck case and just inch it into the chamber, careful not to go past the neck and usually the case remainder pulls right out.
 
I would say it almost looks like the bolt was just about locked when it was suddenly slammed rearward , could an over pressured/charged case do this as well ?

Not enough to det out of battery but enough that the neck of the previous case (being stretched against the chamber) acted as a tighter chamber leaving enough room for gas to get past slamming into the bolt face and down into the mag well , which could explain the 90 degreed rounds ...

basically as if the second round simulated trying to close the bolt on a nogo gauge ?
 
I was going to reload all of the American Eagle brass too but now I think I will just sell it or something... I might just reload for my m14 from now on.

I am really hoping I don't have to get a new m14 due to the damage to the receiver. It seems minimal...
 
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